I dunno, the only Tx I see him with is mostly all TT and partials of JTs/T9s. Non connected Tx combos shouldn't be calling our 4b. I think V's pf calling with 99-QQ, maybe he flats KK+ a small portion of the time.? He's got AK, AQs, KQs, and partials of suited connectors from QJs down to maybe 87s? But yeah as far as the best line here, I'd prefer a downbet OTF to get value from TP & some Jx. As played, I agree with Johnny..? or whomever said it doesn't make sense for V to bluff river, & I guess I would call turn fold river as odd as that is.

I am amazed at how many people call turn and fold river. I'd just fold the turn if I plan to fold to a shove on a blank river, because I am expecting V to shove his entire range if I check river. Either we are ahead on the turn or not, and if we think we are ahead, we should call river (or maybe just shove turn, but that gets him off easy); if we think we are behind, we should fold turn.

If you are calling turn and planning to fold to any blank bet, why the **** are you calling turn? It is completely logical depending on the hand. If you have an overpair, and think this guy is going to just fatten the pot by potentially 2100 when he could free check to the river, I don't know what to say. His bet strikes me as a defensive bet, especially with two player still in it. He isn't leaving much room to fold if hero gets brave, so either he is just straight gambling on a draw. Or he has Aces/twopairs/sets and his shove is basically a value bet.

But before you ever decide to call on the turn, you are aware that V has 1k behind with a 2500+ pot. But nothing changed on the river. V looks exactly like he did on the turn: has a draw (now broken) or sets/twopairs. If you aren't prepared to stack off on a blank, calling the turn is just bleeding money.

My gut says protecting, but results on this don't even matter that much. What matters is that this is a great lesson on how not to play Kings post flop.

Vs a reasonable 3-bettor im 4-betting QQ a lot here. If he has nonsense like SCs/Axs here im also 4-betting JJ

$500 preflop. You gave HJ a really good price to call with position, especially with the SB in the hand he can call a lot here which is miserable for you... And he is going to want to call a lot here. Only calling $230 more to win a pot of $1000 with great implied odds, he is in position vs both of you and everybody has $ behind. Additionally, being 6 handed you should be thrilled to get it all in preflop.

Everybody wants to put the HJ on QQ, JJ when his range preflop is way beyond just premium hands. Who knows what he has and how often he bluffs in this spot. Personally, I think he can even have QJ, 99 due to the preflop sizing, and I think he goes for value with any 2p+ hand because hero might as well turn his hand face up once he calls the turn. And sure he could be running a bluff for the same reason.

Tough spot and curious about results. I feel like a lot of hands I read in this forum, I would maybe not take the highest EV route as I am not the best player, but I would take a formidable +EV route that makes the hand easier to play and prevents me from making what could be a terrible decision, or even having to make a tough decision at all with a high equity hand.

I am too for an extent. I really am curious if V put hero on AK, and is just trying to push him off the hand with a a worse pair/broken draw. I just think that turn is ballsy as **** with the line, with the only information that it is a strong villain.

I don't agree. H can have a lot of semis that continue here with implied odds, and KK is slightly underreped here (why doesn't he c-bet flop with KK). It isn't as faceup, which I am wondering if that is what the H was trying to do. Issue is that when he does get a bet, he has no idea where he stands in the hand.

Hello guys

Ty a lot for all the constructive replies. A few things to mention:
- We were aware of the stack sizes all the way ofc.
- Our 4-bet range in this case would be JJ+ and AK for value and some Ax hands as bluffs. Our 5-bet call range would be QQ+ and AK (we know HJ-V has bluffs in his 5bet range).
- We were thinking about the sizeing of the 4-bet quite a lot. We feel that we probably should go bigger, but look at it as a small mistake, if at all. Either way, the s2p-ratio will be 2.5 max and we can put Vs in terrible spots on so many boards. We could easily get it in over 3 streets on drier boards and over 2 streets on wetter ones.

What was your though process when you checked an over pair through two streets?

What was your plan for the river if he bets you on a blank?

I was contemplating to downbet flop but then checked because I thought this flop was one of the worst ones possible for me. I would either downbet most hands or check all hands there. Turn I wasn't too sure what to do, thats why I am here :-). Since a backdoor Flushdraw came up, which I didn't block btw, I thought I could now at least catch a few bluffs. The plan was to call all rivers except clubs and 8's.

This may sound silly, but how is a QJ rainbow a bad flop for Kings, unless you are putting the V on exactly AA? AK/AQ/AJ are all hands you are ahead of. You are losing to two sets. This is speculating, but it feels like you are playing this entire hand thinking someone is ahead of you.

When it checks through the flop, you absolutely should be betting the turn, otherwise you give permission for V to put you in this exact spot where you don't know if V is trying to blow you off AK/draws, or if he actually has the goods and is trying to defend.

In a 4bet pot, especially a small one, QQ and JJ are good candidates for a villain's flat pre, but I still bet the flop.

QJ should be calling a lot pre also, given the dynamic of the SB and the size of the 4!

QJ should only call here if V thinks H might 4b pre and fold somewhere post.

Otherwise, no, not even close to being deep enough to justify calling the 4b.

Like jots said, presence of the SB might improve it enough to a call. You have to be in the hand with that guy IP against a likely wider than usual H. SB is never backshoving either.

Which is fine, I don't think anyone is arguing he could have that.

He can also have most suited AX, JJ, 1010 if we are putting him on a strict 4bet call range. By checking the flop and turn, we have no idea where we stand when he shoves on the river. He took the free card on the turn, and then bet after the two people in front of him checked through. I can absolutely put him on a ton of broken draws.

What's hero's range that calls turn and then would fold to a river jam? If your preflop range is only QQ+, AK this can be a fold and bluff catch with AA and occasionally take this line with QQ. If your range is wider & contains some bluff hands like AQ you can. Go ahead and call here a good% of the time.

Results?

We lost to JJ.

Call turn coz he might just be taking a stab and give up on river. But once he jams river... sigh fold river.

On river, we can call with our AA or occasional AQ here instead. AQ is a better call than KK believe it or not, since you block AA and QQ. There's the same number of value hands that beat us in both cases, but QQ is more likely to take V's line than AA or KK and AQ blocks more of those QQ's.

Call with AA since you're only losing to sets.

So when you have KK, it's time to fold. It's your worst possible hand here. We even lose to AA that slow played pre and got scared of flop.

Fair enough.

It's a fold on turn as solid villains are not cold calling AQo all that much pre to a 4bet when you flat behind. AQs will call but that's a small range.

I'm surprised you just didn't rip in your stack pre. A loose maniac player from SB cold 4bets a HJ 3bet which is pretty common in these games. Your hand is more than good enough to play for 200BB stacks. If you run into AA in this spot you just gotta roll with it. It's a pretty common open, 3bet, 4bet spot for any Aggro 6 max game. Get it in pre. Can't really do much else especially with a spazzy SB.

As played it's a fold on the turn. You don't beat anything except for AQs combos and I don't see those turning there hand into fat value on this run out.


Edit
I didn't even have to read results. I was 80% sure the guy had QQ or JJ when I scrolled back up and saw them.

I would have jammed preflop after the raise..if ur best at that point (which is likely) isn't getting ur money in while ur the favorite the most important thing?

Then flop overpair on a dangerous board and check instead of trying to put a feel out there..just seems a little too passive. Maybe pot the flop and if u get calls proceed with caution but..you have a good enough hand to feel at least a lil comfortable imo..letting him draw for cheap is a waste of premium pockets imo..but what do I know..? Lol