Hello guys

We would like to know your opinion about a hand we played a few days ago. It was a 6-handed 5$/10$ game with some regs and some unknowns. We pickup KhKd in the Lojack and open for 30$. Hijack 3-bets to 100$. SB coldcalls and we 4-bet to 330$. SB was ultralose preflop and playing a stack of ~1500$. Highjack was a solid player (pro) and playing 2160$. We have them both covered.

Anyway the flop comes down QcJd6h. SB checks, we were contemplating a small bet of ~300$ but then check as well. Hijack checks.

Turn 9c puts a backdoor flushdraw on board. SB checks we check again and now Hijack fires 780$. SB folds, we call.

River bricks (4s). We check, Hijack goes all in for 1050$. Hero??

We felt that this flop was one of the worst against two 4-bet calls. However we were still putting SB on a very wide range (pretty much any pair and some suited connectors as well as some AQ hands) as he was playing so loose and getting pretty good odds.

Our conceived range of Hijack (on the river) was all sets 99,JJ,QQ (9 combos). We didn't think he would value-bet AQ twice, so his valuehands are really only sets. As for the bluffs, we could see a few club nutflushdraws (AK,AT,A5-A2), and maybe the other ATs combos (9 combos). We even thought we would have to at least cut those combos in half as we are pretty sure he wouldn't always pick this line with those hands. We couldn't really find any other bluffs than that.

Let us know what you think about the hand

Downbet the flop for sure. We should be conditionally committed against the loose SB, and can more or less give up against HJ when he calls us on the flop. With the SB cold call, we can have QQ/JJ as a 4bet preflop, so we are pretty protected.

If you reformat this as a proper hand history, you will get more responses. Difficult to follow as-is.

I bet flop.
I shove or fold turn. If you flat turn, how can you fold on a blank river? Were you just hoping for a K or T?

Flop is a range check. We are blocking AK and we wouldn't 4bet QQ/JJ preflop so this is probably the worst flop you can ask for.

I think you played it well now call river and get shown 99. AA = KK here so we can't just call with sets or we are very exploitable.

You got what you wanted when you checked OTF and OTT. What's the question?

I would 4bet QQ, and maybe JJ depending on players, but way less likely.

What was the point of calling the turn if you were gonna fold this river? I bet this flop every time, but as played, you call.

Pretty much this. Unless you think he spiked a 4 on the river, you should be calling here if you think you are good on the turn. Check on the flop feels super weak, and I don't like it. You are in a weird spot, where depending on how solid this V is, he could have the ace, or he could have been playing looser, seeing hte sb as some easy money and try to squeeze. His river bet doesn't feel like a set to me, because a set on the river I feel like would be trying to value bet smaller, because despite the pot size, people aren't going to think "oh, it's barely a 1/2 pot bet size." they are going to say "holy ****s, that's 1k."

Legit question and not a nitpick, were you aware at the time that V's stack size on his turn bet?

what does everyone think of the 4! sizing?

SB is loose and a solid player has position on us and we make it 3.3x. feels small to me.

a lot has changed from turn to river. not on the board but the fact that V, in position, bet is, in fact, more information than we had OTT.

i'm not saying this is a fold or a call, but this information is important. if V had a marginal SDV hand, he may take the show down. if V has air, he may think that barely a 1/2 PSB isn't going to get OP off his hand, so he may give up. any real value hand V has should be jamming and not betting smaller because OP already called 700+ OTT, so V has to go for max value when OP has a hand.

Yes, mistake pre. Stacks are right to 4b more hands as well. There is a good chance SB cold call a 3b and call a 4b ranges are identical which has him as an equity underdog to your 4bet range, even if you go wider. You also want to immediately apply max-pressure to HJ that should have him shoving/folding which is great when you have the heart of your 4b value range. For all you nits out there, HJ likely has a healthy 3b range and if he's any good is comfortable jamming wider than AA.


Flop standard. I'm not checking this turn. AP turn, I might just rip now even though it looks bizarre. HJ has AA a lot here hen he checks, bets 800 and then shoves, and it's almost a fold w KK given he should have no perceived FE and you're face up AF. I still call because HJ should be aware of this and try to leverage it.

Good hand to post.

If you were in the midst of this game flow, not too deep 5T, I think you would adjust pretty well and start looking at a hand like JJ and know it's the nuts.

River was a brick. The only real hand that "got there" was pocket 4s which shouldn't have stayed in on the turn. I don't know how "solid" the pro is, but H should have figured out what the V's range is on the turn. I am assuming the defend here is the H putting V on more flush/straight draws than sets because duh.

Like, if H doesn't think V has a set, I would be donking out on most brick rivers. Solid V's who fire on the turn with that board texture are going to be firing again on blanks a good chunk of the time, even if has a broken draw. I think we might be beat here, but I think I have to make that decision on the.

If I did math correctly, V has 1050 in front of him with 2565 in the pot, fighting a player who bet check/called all the way through. He probably puts you on AKc that broke his draw. I fold it away here as played, but I wouldn't have checked flop/turn, so here we are.

Explain this to DooDooPoker, please

Put it this way: I will 4bet JJ, but I'm much more likely to 4bet QQ. In some situations I 4bet both; in others, I don't.

I play 5/T, but usually only when I'm waiting for PLO -- yes, I'm addicted to PLO (and unfortunately don't get to play often. They only offer it in my room once a month.)

You can't know Villain's river actions unless you have a crystal ball. Every decision in poker has a different EV, therefore every street is played independently.

The whole "since we call turn we have to call river scenario" is fabricated and not logical.

Sorry, but in this case (and we are discussing this hand), against a good 5/T player it makes a lot of sense.

V doesnt really have enough money for a bluff to make sense here given he is IP. his line should be almost exclusively value specifically because many people still abide by that aforementioned axiom.

so the real question is what value hands do we beat that call a 4! pre and don't 5! given that V should expect the SB will come along too.

This cant be right, perhaps you can clarify? Clearly you can only play one street at a time, but each action impacts the EV of the next, no?

If we're calling on the turn, we need to know that there's a very good chance we need to call again if a blank comes on the river. With the blank, if villain was bluffing, they're still bluffing, and if they were value betting, they're still value betting.

HJ prob is super low frequency w any would-be 5b range facing a smallish raise+position+not that deep+SB prob flats 200 always.

If he means that info gained on a street through V's actions should change V's range and our response to it, then I think it makes sense.

again. V is in position. this matters. how many good players are going to bluff in position for less than 1/2 psb? we're getting 3.5:1 to call. we only need 22% equity to call and we just called $780 OTT. if this is a bluff, it is a terrible spot to bluff

Perhaps.

It just seemed like an odd way to put things, particularly when it’s hard to imagine how IP generates a better total EV line by betting turn+checking river than bet betting/check checking. I just think he’s not that narrow because of pre - He should have a lot of Tx in range, and not as much KT bc of our hand obv.

Which is why he can leverage FE more efficiently and level you near indifferent to call/fold (which he actually did). It’s not about the amount, but perceived (strong AF bet shove) range. Look IP has a high concentration of AA/QQ/JJ here too which are going to ck bet bet, but once SB folds and hero ckc turn, IP has license to range shove.

Pre was too small, as played call.

The IP V could definitely be fairly wide here given we are deep, there's a fish behind and OP's 4bet was small. It's easy to level yourself with this logic when for example pro thinks he doesn't have to get a fold that often for this bluff to profit. OP posted the hand so he is strongly considering folding KK.

A humorous anecdote... one time I bluffed all in like 70 into a pot of 500 in omaha when every draw came in and got a fold. I had basically the one combo of draw that the card didn't complete.