Then i guess we have vastly different population tendencies experiences, and that probably plays a big role in our disagreements. Wich is fair of course.

I can't agree more. GTO strategy doesn't really apply to live low stake games.I would probably fold kk preflop facing cold 4bet from a tight regular if I didn't see him iso raise with k9s .

I would meh fold to cold 4b

Cool bro you're a pro's pro

Cool yourself

Given the situation, I can see a fold, but I can't make a fold. I also know in the games I play in, this has a chance to go check check after. Not sure I wouldn't check back a turn here.

For the spot, I pretty much know what I'm up against, AA is a plurality here. I make what is probably a neg EV play and call. If he shoves, I'll evaluate that then. I have enough equity in my mind to call, but like I said, it might be a -EV play.

Just being honest. Where I play, ain't no one making a living at 2/5. I'm not freaking out at Johnny pro across the table so many high level weird ass bluff plays are going to make me like my hand more.

If it's AA, so be it. If it's a set, oh well. Sucks ass. Reload.

OP concludes v is tight but what is the evidence that went into building this read? The K9 hand? if he is a "regular" shouldn't that mean we have more history than one single hand? By regular do we mean that he seems like he plays often, or that we've seen him around frequently?

How is our analysis: K9s hand + Cold 4b from sb = flat KK and fold to flop Cbet on low board?

I don’t think anyone has mentioned this yet, but the way V played the hand he could put hero on AK/JJ and be bombing it otf with QQ to reduce peeling odds with AK and get value from JJ.

When hero flats pre, V probably thinks QQ is the nuts. One time a V flatted my 3! with KK and I tripled-barreled QQ on a good runout. Showdown was a surprise. Not a 4! situation but still.

Also, I don’t think the K9 hand is that relevant. Isolating is not the same as cold 4! and players can have very different starting hand standards for each. But I do think putting V on AA is too narrow. Haven’t we all learned not to have a calling range out of the blinds and to just 3!/4! pre?

not where I play. definitely AK suited and often AKo, also QQ and then add at least 5% spaz.

I'm happy with the flat pre but we can't fold on this flop

we can't have it both ways

we can't say 'hmm' the 4 bet from the SB is small....must be AA and then also say 'hmm he bet 80% of pot on a low dry board...must be AA'

edit: it wasn't you (I think) pointing out that a small 4 bet is AA - think it was ChrisV but you may have said it too...cant' be ****ed to check

I don't want to speak ill of the dead, but that coach was not particularly respected by good players on this forum

I am not argueing to have it both ways as far as i can see. It was indeed ChrisV argueing about the 4 bet size, not me.


What i said in an earlier post though yesterday, is that preflop alarmbells is already going off in my head when i face the cold 4 bet pre- but that i dont have enough information total based on solely preflop to fold right there. I need to see the flop+action in position to further develope my read/ranging, before i feel like i can pretty confidently consider to fold KK in a spot like this. Its the total amount of information that is being made available to me that is the important part.

Results?

My experience is that if this V is really going to take this line with [QQ-,AK-], then we'd have more hand histories to consider.

E.g. he'd be 3b from the blinds at higher frequency.

E.g. 2... We'd have a better idea of his bet sizing tendencies to help us deduce his range here.

As played, I puke fold otf.

But I probably 5b/gii him pre even at this stack size.

V 4b/f with AK is perfectly fine with me...

Hero, are you a younger looking male? What is V? Just curious bc even if you have a current tight imagine, I feel older guys sometimes stereo type (and prob rightfully so) younger males as aggro

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I have a young Asian face and villain is also a young asian kid.

OK,guys. I haven't played poker for a year since I became a pro blackjack player.So I came back to poker table and lost two huge pots including this one at the same table.Of course,villain has AA.Live poker is rigged