Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-28-2014, 11:03 PM   #1
Clark292
centurion
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 157
KK in big blind/ 200bb deep(line check)

Hero- late 20's, raising a fair amount in position but havent had to show down any of my bottom range. Villian made a comment about me only raising with premium hands in EP earlier in the session.

V - 50's. Can bluff when he senses weakness. Is down on the day and has lost two decent pots to hero earlier.

Effective stacks is 1000 for hero and V

V limps UTG, 4 others limp, Hero raises to 35 with KdKs, 3 callers.

Flop (150) - 2s 5h 9c
Hero checks, V bets 120, others fold Hero calls

Turn (400) - 10c
Hero checks, V bets 255, Hero calls

River(960) - 4c
Hero?

Last edited by Clark292; 03-28-2014 at 11:33 PM.
Clark292 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2014, 11:26 PM   #2
QuadJ
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,437
Re: KK in big blind/ 200bb deep(line check)

What was the river card? Any guess as to villain's UTG limp/call range? Mostly check/evaluate. Your hand is under represented but still only one pair. Betting will just fold out the hands you beat. Other then the non-club king, the best cards for you are a non-club 2 or 5, which will counterfeit T9.
QuadJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2014, 11:34 PM   #3
Clark292
centurion
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 157
Re: KK in big blind/ 200bb deep(line check)

His range should be on the tighter side but hasn't had to show down much. He almost gave the impression he wanted to re-raise pre.

He limped AK in EP earlier in anticipation that the straddle would raise. 9,10 is prob in bottom of his limp call range.
Clark292 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2014, 03:38 AM   #4
Jay S
old hand
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Balancing by misreading my hand
Posts: 1,446
Re: KK in big blind/ 200bb deep(line check)

This would be a pretty weird bluff line in a 4-way pot. Is V capable of thin value bets? It'd be good to get a sense of how many of the 12 JJ/QQ combos to put in his range; we're definitely underrepped and beat a few value-betting hands.

I don't see the point of taking a c/c, c/c, c/f line on this runout; if we don't think V has enough air & weaker value hands in his range to justify gii on blank rivers, we should be folding the turn (barring clear reads on what V will do with various hands otr, which it doesn't seem like we have). If we're not folding the turn, the question is whether to jam or c/c river. Jamming might get the occasional call from a JJ/QQ that would've checked behind, but we're also folding out any possible air he might have. Pretty much comes down to reads & range for V.

And fwiw, raise more pf. That raise size this deep pretty much guarantees we'll be playing the hand multiway OOP with fairly high SPR.
Jay S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2014, 12:44 PM   #5
Clark292
centurion
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 157
Re: KK in big blind/ 200bb deep(line check)

V is usually a straight forward player. He raises his premium hands, bets flops when he hits or has a decent draw. When i raised to 35 pre, I was shocked at the amount of time he took to call. It wasn't a long period but awkward fiddling with his chips. I don't think he is ever bluffing here, he has the ability to bluff but not so much on a board like this.

I checked the flop for the purpose of pot control and the other two callers are super tight and would make it known if they flopped a monster.
Clark292 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2014, 01:10 PM   #6
J_tacular
journeyman
 
J_tacular's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: polar vortex
Posts: 331
Re: KK in big blind/ 200bb deep(line check)

I think you need to c-bet here maybe around $80-$90. Im guessing you're sb/bb? Tough spot to be in when you're 4-ways with KK. That being said, villain almost makes a PSB otf into 3 other players and then continues to bet big ott. I would probably fold (the turn), because if you're calling the flop and the turn, you're going to be put in a bad spot and would most likely be facing a bet otr. As played, I would check and hope V checks behind.
J_tacular is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2014, 01:27 PM   #7
BackDoorFlush
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,171
Re: KK in big blind/ 200bb deep(line check)

I really hate the way that you have played this hand. You have showed so much weakness that we have no idea if V is betting for value, or if he is betting because you appear weak. This is such a great flop for KK, that I would be hard pressed to fold for 200BB, as V can easily have a poorly played JJ or even QQ in his hand. As played, I'm check/calling river.
BackDoorFlush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2014, 01:29 PM   #8
oldschool_vegas
grinder
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: FL, USA
Posts: 563
Re: KK in big blind/ 200bb deep(line check)

Probably check/eval, but we can maybe throw out a value bet here?

I'm mostly just scared of 10/9, tripps or the backdoor flush. We can get value off a lot of 9/x and 10/x combos, and JJ/QQ.

I think it can be a flip between c/c, c/r and b/eval.
oldschool_vegas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2014, 01:42 PM   #9
QuadJ
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,437
Re: KK in big blind/ 200bb deep(line check)

I like check/call here, up to say $500. More then that and I'm giving him credit for having a hand that beats KK. When he bets flop into 3 villains, he probably isn't bluffing. However, you can't be sure he is beating you either, he could just have top pair at that point. When he continues on turn heads up, his range tightens up and a third bet on the river is stronger still. He is probably giving up on A9/JJ type hands at some point. QQ remains possible on river, but that is probably the only hand that could be putting in a third bet for value that you beat.

I would have preferred c-betting flop. I'm not sure how much that helps you here though.
QuadJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2014, 03:43 PM   #10
LadyBugger
banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 233
Re: KK in big blind/ 200bb deep(line check)

Hero has top pair, so should he have bet the flop?
LadyBugger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2014, 04:59 PM   #11
PoppaTMan
veteran
 
PoppaTMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,864
Re: KK in big blind/ 200bb deep(line check)

Any tanking when he called PF? My first instinct is that he was going to LRR TT+, then abandoned the plan when it was you that raised (out of the blinds presumably).

Not sure about your game, but most people aren't bombing that flop into two other limp/callers unless they have a hand like K9+/TT+/air. Sets are either going to slowplay or bet smaller, IME. The runout is pretty good for your hand against that range, pretty much the only hands that got there are TT,A3s,67cc,87cc.

I like leading the river for ~225 and calling a shove, as I don't think he's going to value bet worse, and will likely give up with most bluffs if you just check (unless he somehow thinks you're c/c'ing two streets with AK or something silly).
PoppaTMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2014, 11:30 AM   #12
Clark292
centurion
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 157
Re: KK in big blind/ 200bb deep(line check)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppaTMan View Post
Any tanking when he called PF? My first instinct is that he was going to LRR TT+, then abandoned the plan when it was you that raised (out of the blinds presumably).
V tanked for about 30 seconds before calling PF. I was in the big blind.

I checked river and V said something along the lines of you aren't calling with nothing and checked back. I wasn't afraid of being beat here, but wanted to check flop so keep pot from bloating too fast. Once V bets the flop, he is almost always betting the turn.

If we lead river, what should our bet size be? We have ~600 left.
Clark292 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive