Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
KK in BB KK in BB

08-28-2015 , 11:47 PM
My table just broke and I sat down at a new table of 1/2. So no read on my opponents.

Hero (300) effective stacks are 300

4 Limpers to hero in BB with dark KK.
Hero raises to 15, 3 callers (First mistake... unfortunately didn't know what was needed to get down to 3 way or HU)

Flop (60): QQJ

SB Donks 40... Hero?
KK in BB Quote
08-29-2015 , 12:13 AM
Shove. He's on a draw.
KK in BB Quote
08-29-2015 , 12:21 AM
i think I'm finding a reluctant fold here.
KK in BB Quote
08-29-2015 , 12:25 AM
Seeing as how we're dealing with unknowns..

I think the best move is to flat. Shoving only gets called by worse. And I'm not ready to fold to a single bet just yet. Flat, and reevaluate the turn. If you face stronger aggression on a second street, I think we can consider folding.
KK in BB Quote
08-29-2015 , 12:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdsallSa
Shove. He's on a draw.
We have blockers to the only draw.
KK in BB Quote
08-29-2015 , 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopedupwalrus
So no read on my opponents.
This doesn't seem right. I'm sizing my competition up the minute I sit down. Their age, race, how they are dressed, how they handle their cards, they way they stack and handle their chips.

I'm considering folding this flop, depends on who the villain is. Might call though, and evaluate on the turn. There are 3 jacks and only two queens in the deck.

It is basically a WA/WB spot, so don't like raising.
KK in BB Quote
08-29-2015 , 01:12 AM
Call 40, and see what others do. Turn will be main decision point.
KK in BB Quote
08-29-2015 , 02:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan
Call 40, and see what others do. Turn will be main decision point.
I agree with this. Shoving is lighting money on fire here, don't do that.
KK in BB Quote
08-29-2015 , 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kookiemonster
This doesn't seem right. I'm sizing my competition up the minute I sit down. Their age, race, how they are dressed, how they handle their cards, they way they stack and handle their chips.

I'm considering folding this flop, depends on who the villain is. Might call though, and evaluate on the turn. There are 3 jacks and only two queens in the deck.

It is basically a WA/WB spot, so don't like raising.
I had the feeling that he may be trying to take the initiative with a jack or lesser pair looking to see wheres he's at, but had only seen 3 hands to this point. Calling looks to be a solid move.

Turn: (Obviously it depends on the card, but lets say its not a 10)
He donks 1/4-1/2?
He donks 3/4+?
He checks?
KK in BB Quote
08-29-2015 , 04:08 PM
I starting to sense a theoretical hand in this HH. Why don't you tell us what the turn actually was and what he did?

As kookiemonster said, a good player is never in a position to be totally blind about a villain. Just because what you observed doesn't have any significance or value to you, it doesn't mean isn't important. And don't say, "just assume it is a generic villain." I have about 12 types of "generic" villains that I assign simply by seeing them at the table before the first hand is dealt.
KK in BB Quote
08-29-2015 , 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
I starting to sense a theoretical hand in this HH. Why don't you tell us what the turn actually was and what he did?

As kookiemonster said, a good player is never in a position to be totally blind about a villain. Just because what you observed doesn't have any significance or value to you, it doesn't mean isn't important. And don't say, "just assume it is a generic villain." I have about 12 types of "generic" villains that I assign simply by seeing them at the table before the first hand is dealt.
Unfortunately there's no turn info... I folded and didn't want to say it yet figuring it may sway the responses.
The villain was a talkative player, goofing around with the dealers, MAWG look. But at the time, I only had the MAWG read. In retrospect, I've seen players like him try to get ahead of a situation and lead out to see where they are at. It was probably worth a call.
KK in BB Quote
08-29-2015 , 05:19 PM
Shove is terrible. Call flop and eval turn, and I'd be inclined to call a turn bet as well, looking for any reads possible. The sizing looks like they're trying to push you out rather than get value.

If V was OMC I'm folding, but anyone else I call and eval. See people show up with 10s in this spot many times, because they just don't know how to play it.
KK in BB Quote
08-30-2015 , 01:26 AM
If villain had a Q he might go for a c/r here. Calling lets you get away if there is a ton of action after your call (like someone raising behind you and the guy who bet 40 reraising).

Nobody else raised PF which reduces the chances of a Q being out there at least a little because AQ and KQ will sometimes raise.

I'd call the flop. By the time you act again you will have much better information to work with. You can't assume you're beat yet so don't fold. The villains acting behind you will usually have worse hands and either call or fold. A Q behind you might opt to slowplay though, but the villains behind you usually won't have a Q.
KK in BB Quote
08-30-2015 , 08:21 AM
This is one of the exceptions to my rule of not calling the flop bet if I'm not calling the turn bet. A MAWG is likely to put you on AK and fire with Jx or even TT or 99. He'll trap with a Q. And yes, being a MAWG makes a difference. If a woman bet, I'd fold.
KK in BB Quote
08-30-2015 , 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdsallSa
Shove. He's on a draw.
Lol. That would be pretty horrendous.
KK in BB Quote
08-30-2015 , 02:48 PM
I was in a very similar hand recently. 1 newer to the table player raised to $15 in early position, two other callers (who I knew would call very wide and loose), and I looked down a QJ os on the button. I wasn't sure about the initial raiser (he'd played a couple of hands aggressively and had arrogantly showed a successful bluff in one hand already -- he was a young, thought he knew more than the rest of us type), but I knew there was money to be made from the other two callers.

Flop: QJJ

Initial raiser bets heavy on the flop, one player calls, one folds, I call. Turn is a miracle 10, putting a possible straight on the board. Initial raiser shoves all in, remaining player folds, I call the all-in.

Initial raiser had AK for Broadway
2nd player to fold had folded KK (and had failed to 3 bet preflop -- which would have been my cue to exit the hand)
my flopped boat held up (the KK would not have hit his set for a better boat).

Moral of the story: until you know who is who and they knew you, don't put: AQ, KQ, QJ out of range at $1/2 for $15 multi-way.
KK in BB Quote
08-30-2015 , 03:44 PM
I would just fold now. There's no guarantee we're even seeing the turn, and we're not getting a good price.
KK in BB Quote
08-30-2015 , 03:50 PM
This is a strong donk. Likely he has a Q, and if he does he will probably fire the turn big so we can fold to a big turn bet.

I'm calling here because if he does happen to have T9 and hits he straight as we boat up, we get his stack.

He may also have a jack seeing where he's at, and if he just has a jack he probably slows down on the turn.

So I'd call the flop and fold the turn.

Pretty straightforward spot imo.

Folding the flop is also okay and might even be better with other players to act behind us. The thing is, I don't think we make a mistake if we call, someone raises behind, and we fold. Straight draws are not getting so frisky on a paired board that often, so if we get raised we can confidently fold, sure that someone has trips or a boat.
KK in BB Quote

      
m