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Kk 200bb deep river spot, wet board 4b pot Kk 200bb deep river spot, wet board 4b pot

06-02-2014 , 11:20 PM
$2/5 @ Rio

Hero ($1000): Fairly new to table. 32, pierced ears, sunglasses, headphones, grinder looking. Villain just saw me triple barrel a double gutter for small stacks.

Villain ($1000): late 20s early 30s. Headphones. Unknown. Just bought in for $1k. Folded his bb to a raise. This is his second hand.

Preflop:
Folded around to
Hero (btn) dealt KK raises to $20.
Villain (sb): raises to $60
Bb folds
Hero raises to $140
Villain ask how many bills, I tell him 5, then calls.

Flop ($285): J77
Villain checks
Hero bets $150
Villain calls

Turn ($615): 3
Villain checks
Hero checks. I think pot control is great here since Im way ahead or way behind.

River ($615): A

Villain checks
Hero bets $80. Ok now my thought on betting micro thin was to get value from smaller PPs (which I think his range mainly consists of) since the river looks like a great bluff card.

Villain thinks not long and raises to $350.
Hero?
He can't have AK since I have the K I kept wondering is he turning QQ into a bluff?
Kk 200bb deep river spot, wet board 4b pot Quote
06-02-2014 , 11:40 PM
This deep and btn vs sb I think 3bet and 4bet ranges can be wider than just AK/JJ+. On the flop I'd bet larger to setup a turn shove. As played on the turn I'd bet again since you're way ahead most of the time and there are lots of worse that can and will call here. On the river I think it's optimistic to try and exploit V by betting 1/8 pot since this type of player will just fold or bluff raise worse so it's best just to check back. As played it doesn't make sense to station with the bottom part of your range since he's probably not getting out of line with bluffs in this spot so folding seems fine.
Kk 200bb deep river spot, wet board 4b pot Quote
06-03-2014 , 07:25 AM
Betting turn for value all day. He calls with all Jx, Jx with Xd draw, probably peels one more with 88-TT. Not really sure if its a WAWB spot.

As played its probably a fold because to any thinking player your range for open/4betting the button, and checking back turn, looks a lot like Ax with a strong kicker. Not sure if he's trying to bluff you off such a strong range.
Kk 200bb deep river spot, wet board 4b pot Quote
06-03-2014 , 08:15 AM
I am always a fan of thin value, but I don't think you have the receipts yet do that nor does this look like a good player type to target. As played, you have created a leveling spot for yourself on the river. I think the small bed sizing of $80 caps your range here to V at one pair. Since he raised on the high side, that makes me wants to call. However, The ace on the river is the perfect card for him to check to have you bet since your preflo, flop and turn line mimics AX well. So, he could be putting you on a hand like AK and raising for max value with a flush, trips, or full house. So, until I've seen a player demonstrate that he is capable of making a bluff raise similar to this, I tend to give him credit and fold here.

As others have said, I like making a larger bet on the flop in order to set up a turn shove.
Kk 200bb deep river spot, wet board 4b pot Quote
06-03-2014 , 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel9861
This deep and btn vs sb I think 3bet and 4bet ranges can be wider than just AK/JJ+. On the flop I'd bet larger to setup a turn shove. As played on the turn I'd bet again since you're way ahead most of the time and there are lots of worse that can and will call here. On the river I think it's optimistic to try and exploit V by betting 1/8 pot since this type of player will just fold or bluff raise worse so it's best just to check back. As played it doesn't make sense to station with the bottom part of your range since he's probably not getting out of line with bluffs in this spot so folding seems fine.
agree with your post, except that bolded parts don´t compute. also wouldn´t shove turn, way overplaying your hand imo. b/b/b is the way to go in these spots.

OP, there can be a case made for betting ultra small otr mostly to induce what just happened, but in your case, you are totally readless on your villain. why on earth are you making such a highly exploitable play in such a situation and not your standard play? if your default in this situation is to bet 1/8 of the pot otr, i would really sec guess my overall gameplan...

as played, call i guess... most wouldn´t valueraise Ax here, tough to make a flush in a 4bet pot, 7x shouldn´t really be in his range etc... just such a small valuerange he could take this line with, plus you more or less induced it.
Kk 200bb deep river spot, wet board 4b pot Quote
06-04-2014 , 01:50 AM
B/b/shove and b/shove are close but in this hand I like b/shove better because on turns like the one in this hand he can level himself into stacking off lighter thinking hero is pushing with AK or V has something like AJ and is never folding turn. B/b/shove also looks scarier imo against a competent player but I like b/b/shove against a recreational player.

In the bolded part what I was trying to say is that we don't know for sure if he's bluffing way too much in this spot or never has bluffs here and since hero can still have AK in his range it's ok to fold this hand and not have to worry about being exploited. If there was good reason to believe that V has bluffs too often here then we can exploitably station with all of our range which includes this hand.
Kk 200bb deep river spot, wet board 4b pot Quote
06-04-2014 , 01:07 PM
I think b/b small > x back the turn > blast it. I don't like blasting the flop and shoving the turn vs this sort of player. I would guess guess that he will probably never call the ship on the turn with the naked J. It is also pretty close to wa/wb because he doesn't easily get to the turn with the naked Ad.

I feel like people are treating this hand like it is some sorta sicko showdown where V knows hero can have A4 suited in his range on the turn and we are at the tip top... While I agree with Daniel that vs range isn't just AK/JJ+ vs a min 4bet, it also seems wrong to think that V will call a large bet OTT with TT or even AJ without the Ad

As far as the river goes, your line is too cute/scary vs a potentially dangerous player.
Kk 200bb deep river spot, wet board 4b pot Quote
06-04-2014 , 01:48 PM
Either bet $200 for value on river, or just check back. The only reason you should bet $80 is to induce raises from worse hands. If that was your plan, then click call and accept whatever V shows down.
Kk 200bb deep river spot, wet board 4b pot Quote
06-04-2014 , 02:16 PM
I'm failing to see how this weak bet is ever getting you any good results. Maybe if you had the nuts I could see a bet like this. I think if you do this bet you need to have a very tight read and a super specific plan if you get raised.
Kk 200bb deep river spot, wet board 4b pot Quote

      
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