Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-22-2019, 04:23 PM   #1
tmo1120
adept
 
tmo1120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southwest, FL
Posts: 910
KJos in LP 1/2 NL, Line Check

300 effective

L/P 1/2 game

couple limpers in front of me

I have KJ in LP, i think im in the HJ here? i don't remember, I raise to 12, I could overlimp here, limping ranges are so wide in these games so I think I'm fine w/ the raise

I get 3 callers

Main V: guy omr, mid to late 20's , fairly competent, just sat down but i've played w/ him before, pretty solid game i think

4 way to F: Q75 (r), (48); It is X'd to me and i decide to check this back due to the # of players in the hand

looking back i think i cb here is ok? for 20-25? there are some good turns for me [9,T,J,K,A] that i can dub barrel

T: Tos ; X'd to me again and I decide to bet now with my added equity, I bet 25, only main V calls

HU to the R:5 (98); He X's , Hero? I'm ranging him on [AX(draw),7X,TX,busted SD's]; I feel like he can not have a Q here and it is pretty obvious that I don't have a Q either unless i Have 2 of them

I appreciate Feedback on all inflection points here
tmo1120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2019, 05:31 PM   #2
Spanishmoon
journeyman
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Northeast
Posts: 285
Re: KJos in LP 1/2 NL, Line Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmo1120 View Post
300 effective

L/P 1/2 game

couple limpers in front of me

I have KJ in LP, i think im in the HJ here? i don't remember, I raise to 12, I could overlimp here, limping ranges are so wide in these games so I think I'm fine w/ the raise

I get 3 callers

Main V: guy omr, mid to late 20's , fairly competent, just sat down but i've played w/ him before, pretty solid game i think

4 way to F: Q75 (r), (48); It is X'd to me and i decide to check this back due to the # of players in the hand

looking back i think i cb here is ok? for 20-25? there are some good turns for me [9,T,J,K,A] that i can dub barrel

T: Tos ; X'd to me again and I decide to bet now with my added equity, I bet 25, only main V calls

HU to the R:5 (98); He X's , Hero? I'm ranging him on [AX(draw),7X,TX,busted SD's]; I feel like he can not have a Q here and it is pretty obvious that I don't have a Q either unless i Have 2 of them

I appreciate Feedback on all inflection points here
Not a huge fan of raising KJo versus capable opponent. BTW, was there a FD on board ott? (I will assume no.)

AP: When you delay c-bet turn, your hand sorta looks like what it is or maybe ATs/JTs - but either way you've narrowed your range considerably.

River brick sets up an interesting range battle. Could V float his J9/98 combos and risk making the stupid end of the straight? Without a FD, it seems unlikely. Maybe he has KJs. Let's assume he floats all his Tx.

But my problem with a river bluff is the board pairing! So only your KTs/ATs beats his Tx and he probably doubts you'd raise preflop with your KTs. His 7x now has a Q kicker and only has to fear your A7s. So I don't see this as a fertile bluffing spot.

Let's dismiss V's 77 or A5s, though they aren't impossible.

For a $98 pot, this is a lot of brain damage. I can find a check behind, expecting to be chopping/good with KJ against his KJ/J9s/98s as often as his 7xs/Txs and his rare A5s/77 beat you.
Spanishmoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2019, 05:49 PM   #3
Cosines11
Pooh-Bah
 
Cosines11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: post count > BR
Posts: 4,439
Re: KJos in LP 1/2 NL, Line Check

PF, either raise more or overlimp.

AP, check flop, check turn, c/f river.
Cosines11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2019, 07:05 PM   #4
NittyOldMan1
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 218
Re: KJos in LP 1/2 NL, Line Check

make it $15-18 pre or limp. flop is good, i just check turn and see a free river. as played you have to bet pretty big to get Tx to fold, but you dont really rep anything so it might not work anyway.

ps dont listen to nits who tell you to fold pre.
NittyOldMan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2019, 09:02 PM   #5
tmo1120
adept
 
tmo1120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southwest, FL
Posts: 910
Re: KJos in LP 1/2 NL, Line Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanishmoon View Post

AP: When you delay c-bet turn, your hand sorta looks like what it is or maybe ATs/JTs - but either way you've narrowed your range considerably.

River brick sets up an interesting range battle. Could V float his J9/98 combos and risk making the stupid end of the straight? Without a FD, it seems unlikely. Maybe he has KJs. Let's assume he floats all his Tx.
no I don't think FD came in

calling w/ an OESD is not floating , it is quite stnd if he x/c's with J9/89 given my bet size

calling with TX is not floating

floating is calling with a hand that does NOT have a lot of equity with the intention of stealing the pot on a later street, floating is best done in position
tmo1120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2019, 09:04 PM   #6
tmo1120
adept
 
tmo1120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southwest, FL
Posts: 910
Re: KJos in LP 1/2 NL, Line Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosines11 View Post
PF, either raise more or overlimp.

AP, check flop, check turn, c/f river.
i can't c/f river, I close action

Why take such a passive line when checked to twice closing action?
tmo1120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2019, 09:08 PM   #7
tmo1120
adept
 
tmo1120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southwest, FL
Posts: 910
Re: KJos in LP 1/2 NL, Line Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by NittyOldMan1 View Post
make it $15-18 pre or limp. flop is good, i just check turn and see a free river. as played you have to bet pretty big to get Tx to fold, but you dont really rep anything so it might not work anyway.

ps dont listen to nits who tell you to fold pre.
I agree I'm likely not getting him off TX; my bet would be designed to remove him off of AX ( that picked up equity OTT) and 7X; and some PP's

like i said he is a competent player so he could be calling turn with much more than TX and he very rarely has QX here imo
tmo1120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2019, 09:13 PM   #8
Spanishmoon
journeyman
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Northeast
Posts: 285
Re: KJos in LP 1/2 NL, Line Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmo1120 View Post
no I don't think FD came in

calling w/ an OESD is not floating , it is quite stnd if he x/c's with J9/89 given my bet size

calling with TX is not floating

floating is calling with a hand that does NOT have a lot of equity with the intention of stealing the pot on a later street, floating is best done in position
Semantics. You’ve repped more equity than he has. Obviously J9 has some equity but the nut straight is in your range more than it is in V’s. What Tx does he have beat when H has raised preflop? From V’s perspective, he likely thinks he’s floating against your range. But whatever.

Just trying to help you!

The main issue is whether to bluff or not. Let’s skip the semantics. H is only winning with a bluff and my point, before we drown in a sea of semantics, is that this isn’t a great bluffing spot.
Spanishmoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2019, 10:07 PM   #9
tmo1120
adept
 
tmo1120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southwest, FL
Posts: 910
Re: KJos in LP 1/2 NL, Line Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanishmoon View Post
Semantics. Youíve repped more equity than he has. Obviously J9 has some equity but the nut straight is in your range more than it is in Vís. What Tx does he have beat when H has raised preflop? From Vís perspective, he likely thinks heís floating against your range. But whatever.

Just trying to help you!

The main issue is whether to bluff or not. Letís skip the semantics. H is only winning with a bluff and my point, before we drown in a sea of semantics, is that this isnít a great bluffing spot.
I appreciate it , i'm not mad or anything maybe it did sound like I was lol I'm just trying to explain the terminology bc I think it its important to understand for future situations

Ok so you think after I bet the turn that I should just give up on the river?

I range him on [ 7X, TX, SD's, some PP's ] otr ; so it felt like he was weighted towards weak pairs and busted draws ( some of these draws are AX)
tmo1120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2019, 10:26 PM   #10
browni3141
veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Florida
Posts: 3,045
Re: KJos in LP 1/2 NL, Line Check

Bet river. You're not completely capped if you construct your ranges reasonably. You rep QT/TT and some top pairs that chose to check flop, mostly. I'd size bigger on turn. $75 at a minimum on river. Overbetting vs. a suspected capped range is not unreasonable and relatively unexplored in this forum.
browni3141 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2019, 11:03 PM   #11
Spanishmoon
journeyman
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Northeast
Posts: 285
Re: KJos in LP 1/2 NL, Line Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmo1120 View Post
I appreciate it , i'm not mad or anything maybe it did sound like I was lol I'm just trying to explain the terminology bc I think it its important to understand for future situations

Ok so you think after I bet the turn that I should just give up on the river?

I range him on [ 7X, TX, SD's, some PP's ] otr ; so it felt like he was weighted towards weak pairs and busted draws ( some of these draws are AX)
Itís all good amigo. We range him the same way. Iím sorry my post was ambiguous.

Iím not saying you should give up. This is a classic range battle. I used the float metaphor only to illustrate that youíve displayed more range strength throughout the hand, so heís ďfloating ď in the range battle. Perhaps thereís a better term for this. Had he x r turn, the situation would be entirely different.

Anyway, The board pairing eliminates some kicker problems for him. That was my main point. So the river analysis is simpler for him.

The math of it comes down to your assessment of FE, which I feel is diminished by the damn board pairing. That said, the strength overall youíve displayed can be exploited only with a strong river bet.

In that sense, I agree with Browni although I donít think V thinks you could open with QT or KT. In any case, it will take a big bet to fold V and I think weíre good xíg half the time. But perhaps Browni is correct that you should ďstick to your story ď and that Iíve underestimated FE.

That said, i suspect youíre good checking behind half the time at least and itís a 98 dollar pot and life is long....if V called Tx on turn he will call it on river unless you size up.
Spanishmoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2019, 07:47 AM   #12
BackDoorFlush
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,135
Re: KJos in LP 1/2 NL, Line Check

Do not limp this hand from the HJ. Raise or fold, and raise is the better option at most tables.

x flop. C-betting into 3 people on this board is spew, IMO.
Bet turn is good. Size up. Closer to pot.
River is a pretty meh spot. The 5X on the river is a bad bluff card. We also have SDV against busted straight draws: 86, 98, J9. If you are going to bet then size up, but don't be surprised if Tx calls.
BackDoorFlush is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2019, 11:17 AM   #13
tmo1120
adept
 
tmo1120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southwest, FL
Posts: 910
Re: KJos in LP 1/2 NL, Line Check

Thank you all for your replies

RESULT: I ended up betting 65 OTR; V calls w/ J7s

he said " if I bet 30 he would've folded " ; I guess he thought i'd bet smaller otr w a T and wasn't worried about me x'ing back a Q OTF
tmo1120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2019, 08:58 PM   #14
Tropica
stranger
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 11
Re: KJos in LP 1/2 NL, Line Check

I agree with BDF. When everyone so passive on flop (I like the check), and the turn, let's bop 50 in. With only1caller, $100 literally any river.

How many beers deep?
Tropica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2019, 09:09 AM   #15
snowman
adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: ON THE ROAD AGAIN
Posts: 981
Re: KJos in LP 1/2 NL, Line Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmo1120 View Post
300 effective

L/P 1/2 game

couple limpers in front of me

I have KJ in LP, i think im in the HJ here? i don't remember, I raise to 12, I could overlimp here, limping ranges are so wide in these games so I think I'm fine w/ the raise
I get 3 callers

Main V: guy omr, mid to late 20's , fairly competent, just sat down but i've played w/ him before, pretty solid game i think

4 way to F: Q75 (r), (48); It is X'd to me and i decide to check this back due to the # of players in the hand

looking back i think i cb here is ok? for 20-25? there are some good turns for me [9,T,J,K,A] that i can dub barrel

T: Tos ; X'd to me again and I decide to bet now with my added equity, I bet 25, only main V calls

HU to the R:5 (98); He X's , Hero? I'm ranging him on [AX(draw),7X,TX,busted SD's]; I feel like he can not have a Q here and it is pretty obvious that I don't have a Q either unless i Have 2 of them

I appreciate Feedback on all inflection points here
based on this and other posts
what you failed to include is your image
and V assesses it as a flop-aholic any two cards pre-flop is good enough

this is bad for bluffing but good for value bets when you got the goods
sometimes you gotta adjust and play to your image as seen by V not what you think you are
snowman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2019, 10:11 AM   #16
tmo1120
adept
 
tmo1120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southwest, FL
Posts: 910
Re: KJos in LP 1/2 NL, Line Check

this guy just sat down so he's only been here for a few hands; in general I have a TAG image at the table but I am mid 20's so maybe with so few hands together he sees me as a LAG

players don't bluff enough at 1/2 in general so w/o a table image established vs this guy i think I still have some FE; obviously I was wrong if he calls with 7X lol
tmo1120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2019, 11:41 AM   #17
snowman
adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: ON THE ROAD AGAIN
Posts: 981
Re: KJos in LP 1/2 NL, Line Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmo1120 View Post
this guy just sat down so he's only been here for a few hands; in general I have a TAG image at the table but I am mid 20's so maybe with so few hands together he sees me as a LAG

players don't bluff enough at 1/2 in general so w/o a table image established vs this guy i think I still have some FE; obviously I was wrong if he calls with 7X lol
1-2 players also don't like to fold

you can't bluff a calling station (this is true at any $$$ level)

also some 1-2 players have no clue other than hey I got a pair even 3rd pair and will see it thru
value bet the chips right out of them when you find one !!!!!!
snowman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2019, 01:36 PM   #18
mdelore
adept
 
mdelore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,106
Re: KJos in LP 1/2 NL, Line Check

More pre, don't give people behind ip a reason to call.

Flop check is fine, maybe bet if you have a bdfd.

Turn I think I check and see the river. You have a lot of equity vs likely holdings and you're going to feel forced to follow through on brick rivers, and you won't be repping much if you do so.
mdelore is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online