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KJcc UTG in <img /<img / game KJcc UTG in <img /<img / game

09-05-2018 , 02:32 AM
Hero has TAG image, $120 stack effective.

Standard raise in this $1-$1-$2 game ($200 max) is $12-$17.

Limps to CO who raises to $10 (he's been fairly tight). Button calls, I call with K♣J♣ in the SB, BB calls.

$40 to the flop: 7♣A♦3♣.

I check, BB checks, CO (original raiser) bets $15:$40, button folds, I re raise to $45. BB then goes all in, CO folds.

I put the remainder of my stack in, $65.

BB shows A7 for flopped top two. We brick out on turn and river, BB scoops.

----

What would you guys have done in my position on the flop with the flush draw? Would you have just called the $15:$40 bet by the original raiser in the CO? I felt like CO's flop bet was weak, but obviously I did not suspect the BB to flop top two. But, if I just called the $15 bet and a club came on the turn or river, I felt like it would be hard to get value when I'm the one leading into two players. Also, if I had flatted the $15 bet on the flop, there's a good chance that BB would've either re raised or shoved with his top two pair.

Was my re-raise a good move? Or was I only folding out worse draws, and if someone had an Ace, they'd never be folding against my stack size?

Would you have 3x bet with K♣J♣ in the SB after a small PFR of $10 (standard opening was between $12-$17)? CO was a fairly tight player.

What if instead of my $120 effective stack, I had $1,000 instead? Would your strategy change?

Last edited by roadracerdave; 09-05-2018 at 02:38 AM.
KJcc UTG in <img /<img / game Quote
09-05-2018 , 02:39 AM
Buy in full, fold pre or at least raise. Flop is fine.
KJcc UTG in <img /<img / game Quote
09-05-2018 , 04:39 AM
Just muck preflop, even with a full stack you don't really want to play this OOP vs a tight raiser and with your stack, no way. Rest of the hand looks fine.
KJcc UTG in <img /<img / game Quote
09-05-2018 , 04:56 AM
ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
386,980,704 trials (Exhaustive)
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
KcJc46.60% 170,317,03320,031,953
20%53.40% 196,631,71820,031,953

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
190,065,744 trials (Exhaustive)
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
KcJc37.93% 68,528,6277,136,964
10%62.07% 114,400,1537,136,964

the hand looks prettier than it is
KJcc UTG in <img /<img / game Quote
09-05-2018 , 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wait
Buy in full, fold pre or at least raise. Flop is fine.
I did buy-in for the full $200, topped off with another $100 once I bled down. $120 was all I had left and wanted to spend (BRM).

What's your reasoning for 3 betting the fairly tight player, pre flop?
KJcc UTG in <img /<img / game Quote
09-05-2018 , 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
Just muck preflop, even with a full stack you don't really want to play this OOP vs a tight raiser and with your stack, no way. Rest of the hand looks fine.
What if I was $500 effective instead of $120 effective? Would you say the re-raise to $45 on the flop was still an okay play?
KJcc UTG in <img /<img / game Quote
09-05-2018 , 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sauhund
ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
386,980,704 trials (Exhaustive)
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
KcJc46.60% 170,317,03320,031,953
20%53.40% 196,631,71820,031,953

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
190,065,744 trials (Exhaustive)
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
KcJc37.93% 68,528,6277,136,964
10%62.07% 114,400,1537,136,964

the hand looks prettier than it is
Thanks for the equity calcs! I take it those are the equity calcs pre-flop, and on the flop, respectively?

BTW, what do the 20% and 10% mean, from your table?
KJcc UTG in <img /<img / game Quote
09-05-2018 , 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadracerdave
What if I was $500 effective instead of $120 effective? Would you say the re-raise to $45 on the flop was still an okay play?
No, I'd then probably want to flat and maybe rep an ace later in the hand. With a deeper stack you don't really want to build a big pot from OOP, you'll get yourself into difficulties later in the hand.
KJcc UTG in <img /<img / game Quote
09-05-2018 , 09:15 PM
Not a big fan of check raising the flop.
Why?
- A73 hits the pfr more than us, he has AK AQ AJ in the range (not folding for this SPR), (better to c/r when we have a range advantage ex 875, 776, etc)
-we rep a thin value range

If we are deeper it gets more interesting if we think v is capable of folding AQ, AJ to sufficient heat, as our value range is pretty much sets.


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KJcc UTG in <img /<img / game Quote
09-05-2018 , 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadracerdave
I did buy-in for the full $200, topped off with another $100 once I bled down. $120 was all I had left and wanted to spend (BRM).

What's your reasoning for 3 betting the fairly tight player, pre flop?
I misread the hand actually
KJcc UTG in <img /<img / game Quote
09-06-2018 , 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
No, I'd then probably want to flat and maybe rep an ace later in the hand. With a deeper stack you don't really want to build a big pot from OOP, you'll get yourself into difficulties later in the hand.
Thanks. That response was helpful.
KJcc UTG in <img /<img / game Quote
09-06-2018 , 01:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperknit
Not a big fan of check raising the flop.
Why?
- A73 hits the pfr more than us, he has AK AQ AJ in the range (not folding for this SPR), (better to c/r when we have a range advantage ex 875, 776, etc)
-we rep a thin value range

If we are deeper it gets more interesting if we think v is capable of folding AQ, AJ to sufficient heat, as our value range is pretty much sets.


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Okay, good input. However, I felt like CO's bet $15 into $40 on the flop was pretty weak (although..he could've easily had an Ace and was just trying to get some light calls for value).

The difficulty in my hand is that if I hadn't raised, and just called, then if I had turned the flush, it would be difficult to get value from OOP.
KJcc UTG in <img /<img / game Quote
09-06-2018 , 02:03 AM
Defending this hand preflop seems very debatable, and I think the flop xr is spew

Hero should not have much of a real value range to xr either as small sets should fold preflop and defending weaker ax hand out is also bad

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KJcc UTG in <img /<img / game Quote
09-06-2018 , 07:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadracerdave



The difficulty in my hand is that if I hadn't raised, and just called, then if I had turned the flush, it would be difficult to get value from OOP.

You’re right it will be hard to get value. You have low implied odds. The good thing tho is that u are getting good direct odds.
15 to win 55, almost 4:1
So it’s ok if u don’t get paid off much or very often.
Deception is one aspect of the game, but it isn’t everything. Sometimes it’s ok to make a play that reveals the contents of our hands if it is +EV and there aren’t other more +EV lines. If u want your range to be more deceptive I would suggest playing a wider variety f hands this same way rather than trying to play this hand differently.



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KJcc UTG in <img /<img / game Quote
09-06-2018 , 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadracerdave
Thanks for the equity calcs! I take it those are the equity calcs pre-flop, and on the flop, respectively?

BTW, what do the 20% and 10% mean, from your table?
That is KJs equity against both the top 20% of hands preflop and vs top 10% of hands preflop. Depending how tight your opponent is opening.
KJcc UTG in <img /<img / game Quote
09-06-2018 , 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
Defending this hand preflop seems very debatable, and I think the flop xr is spew

Hero should not have much of a real value range to xr either as small sets should fold preflop and defending weaker ax hand out is also bad

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Yes, I agree playing KJcc is debatable. That is - I think it's very defendable for $10 ($8 to me). Are you saying you wouldn't defend it, despite the pot odds, because it's difficult to play a drawing hand OOP? The least I would do is call to see a flop with these broadway suited cards. Surely I'm not the only one who thinks like is, am I? I can be convinced otherwise if my logic is of the minority. That's why I'm posting here, to get feedback and adjust my game.

I do see what you mean by my x/r on the flop. You don't like the x/r because it's not a believable move on my part. However, I definitely do have sets in my range, as well as 2 pair. Also, I think x/r with flush draws balances out my range. Finally, CO's bet of $15 into $40 was so weak, I could have x/r with any two cards to get him off.

I do agree that defending Ace + rag from OOP is bad play. I wouldn't usually play like that. However, I don't agree that I would fold a pocket pair from early position. For a small raise of $8 to me, I'd definitely call with any pocket pair.
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