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KJcc in EP, raise or fold, live 1/2 KJcc in EP, raise or fold, live 1/2

03-15-2017 , 10:53 PM
EDIT, DONT MEAN TO SPAM,MODS IVE POSTED THIS IN THE BEGINNERS FORUM BUT THOUGHT IT WAS BETTER SUITED HERE


So I find this hand to be particularly interesting to me because I've noticed over the last ~100 hours its spots like these that are losing me the most money without showdown. In this hand I think I overplayed my situation mostly because in the past I've found it hard to range my opponents correctly. I think that I usually include too many Ax hands in my opponents range, and give up too often, yet it seems that when I try to attack other parts of my opponents range it fails pretty miserably. Admittedly I don't have the biggest sample size to go off but still Im noticing the leak.

Villain in this hand is new to this table. Bought in for $175. Younger clean cut well dressed guy. Only hand we played with him he called our early position raise with AJ we checked into 3 players on QQ7 and he bet and took it down. He won a few pots after that without showdown, seems better than an average 1/2 player. He is seated to our immediate left. In this hand were $235 effective and we cover.

Hero is UTG +1 in straddled pot, dealt KJcc and raises to $25. Villain is the only caller. I start to wonder if villain likes to play back at us as were the big stack at the table.

Flop($57) is Ac5h7d. Hero bets $35 and villain calls. Here I bet to rep my range on a board where I hold the strongest Ax since I raised from EP. This was my plan post flop and to barrel turns I pick up equity on. I think I can narrow villains range down to sets, some middling Ax hands, and A5s. Two combos of A5s are discounted though.

Turn($131) is 3c. I continue my plan to rep my range, and barrel a turn that I pick up equity on. I bet $75 and villain shoves for $77 more.

Hero? I'm basically priced in with 9 clean outs but this still sucks. I feel like there are mistakes I'm missing in this hand, and it's becoming clear I don't have a plan for combat in situations like these. I'm unsure if we should just be playing the very top of our value range from EP and folding these hands that are easily dominated. Especially by my perceived opponents calling ranges since I'm often raising larger than everyone at the table.
KJcc in EP, raise or fold, live 1/2 Quote
03-15-2017 , 11:19 PM
If you're a beginner I think that KJ suited is a marginal hand to open 12x in EP. Are you always opening this large, or we're there table dynamics that justified this size raise?

I'm probably checking this turn hoping for a free river with my opponent having TT or JJ, or hoping he bets and I can get away from the hand.

As played you've basically repped a AJ+ type of hand and the villain still came over the top of you, not to mention that you now need about 27% equity to call and you have 19% on the high end now. This is a fold.


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KJcc in EP, raise or fold, live 1/2 Quote
03-15-2017 , 11:27 PM
Limp. See a cheap flop. Most 1/2 games are passive.
KJcc in EP, raise or fold, live 1/2 Quote
03-16-2017 , 12:01 AM
15 preflop, bet 60% on that flop, check decide turn. Move onto next hand imo.
KJcc in EP, raise or fold, live 1/2 Quote
03-16-2017 , 12:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhskyRiv
If you're a beginner I think that KJ suited is a marginal hand to open 12x in EP. Are you always opening this large, or we're there table dynamics that justified this size raise?

I'm probably checking this turn hoping for a free river with my opponent having TT or JJ, or hoping he bets and I can get away from the hand.

As played you've basically repped a AJ+ type of hand and the villain still came over the top of you, not to mention that you now need about 27% equity to call and you have 19% on the high end now. This is a fold.


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Typically pre flop i'll take the standard table size and usually raise a bit larger to really put pressure on my opponents with my entire range pre flop, and this was a straddled pot to 4 so about 6x raise. The problem I'm having is these spots are coming up frequently, and I'm unable to defer whether its a problem with my EP raise range having too many barreling hands in it, or if I should just be check/folding flops like these. To me that seems a bit too exploitable given my large raise sizes, I'll be very easy to read as fit or fold, but I might be thinking into it too much and playing that exploitably at 1/2 could be okay. Spoiler: I folded the turn.
KJcc in EP, raise or fold, live 1/2 Quote
03-16-2017 , 12:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everest17
15 preflop, bet 60% on that flop, check decide turn. Move onto next hand imo.
I agree that pre flop sizing could've been a bit smaller, but do you think the best place to put pressure on middling Ax hands is on the flop, and not the turn? In a ~1 spr pot are most opponents going to stack off with weak aces there making this type of play hopeless?
KJcc in EP, raise or fold, live 1/2 Quote
03-16-2017 , 01:28 AM
fold preflop
KJcc in EP, raise or fold, live 1/2 Quote
03-16-2017 , 07:36 AM
If you are going to bet turn then why in the hell didn't you just shove there? Think about it. Bet calling is really stupid. Your idea of raising larger than everyone else to put pressure on them is really bad. Put pressure on them for what reason? You want them to fold? I want to play pots postflop when I have playable hands.

That being said, YOU should be folding pre. Given that it's a straddled pot it's more likely you could get away with limping. If you are going to come in with a raise then you definitely should be sizing it smaller.
KJcc in EP, raise or fold, live 1/2 Quote
03-16-2017 , 09:43 AM
KJs is a good hand to fold in EP. This is even more true at 1/2 where raises have to be big to get any FE, the straddle just makes the situation worse. When you don't get any action your risking a lot to win the blinds and when you do get action you risk being dominated and are often left guessing on the flop.

The flop c-bet is OK heads up but when that gets called just give up on turn. Villain doesn't have much left and his flop call indicates he his committed to the pot. You need a specific read that villain is weak but will call the first bet wide and give up on turn a lot to continue.
KJcc in EP, raise or fold, live 1/2 Quote
03-16-2017 , 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher
If you are going to bet turn then why in the hell didn't you just shove there? Think about it. Bet calling is really stupid. Your idea of raising larger than everyone else to put pressure on them is really bad. Put pressure on them for what reason? You want them to fold? I want to play pots postflop when I have playable hands.

That being said, YOU should be folding pre. Given that it's a straddled pot it's more likely you could get away with limping. If you are going to come in with a raise then you definitely should be sizing it smaller.
I agree if I'm going to bet turn i should shove or check/shove. definitely a mistake. I want to use raise sizes that are larger than conventional because I want to be able to isolate opponents in pots that very often go 4+ ways to smaller sizes, and I want to instill in my opponents mind when you enter a pot with me we can play for stacks at any moment. So i'm raising for isolation or playability.

That brings me to mistakes I make in this spot. I'm really only isolating the straddle to which I have no indication they will get sticky, and my hand doesn't have the best playability against perceived calling ranges with 9 people to get through. So yea probably fold pre and not include these hands in my EP raise range if I want to continue to use my large sizes.
KJcc in EP, raise or fold, live 1/2 Quote
03-16-2017 , 02:47 PM
This depends on you and your table. How do you feel about playing kj oop against the table. If I'm with some good aggressive players this goes in the bin, against a bunch of passive fish I'm opening this all night.
Hand as played, check fold turn. He called you on an a high board, he can call with less than an a. But he is unlikely to bet turn with less than an a here, oop sucks, it could be a float, we have no real way of knowing so it's a check fold on the turn
KJcc in EP, raise or fold, live 1/2 Quote

      
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