I raise in mp with KcJs in mp and get called by Villain in lp, calling station in the small blind and weak tight post flop player in the big blind. V has 470 roughly and I cover.

The villain and I have a lot of history for only playing this one time. I check raised him with a flush draw in the first hand we played, hit on the turn, checked and he checked back, checked the river and he checked back a straight. This set up hand 2 where I raised him with 66 on a 6s8c10c board. He called and led out this time on a blank turn, I put him all in, he called and said after I won the pot that he put me on a flush draw. This was a large pot and he could now be targeting me.

Flop is KsJc3c
Checked to me, I bet 35, v calls and both blinds fold.
Turn is 3s
I bet 120, v stares at me for a while, asks how much it is, thinks a bit and calls.
River is 4c
Do you check here to induce bluffs from hands with showdown value and complete bluffs such as q10, check/fold, bet/fold or bet/call?

bet 130 and fold to raises,

or

check and call up to 100.

do not call over 150

How is he ever bluffing, betting 100 into that pot?

How do you explain the 35 dollar bet on the flop and 120 on the turn?

You don't list the size of the pot anywhere but that sounds outrageous.

What were you trying to accomplish?

Your turn play indicates that you think that the Villain is calling huge bets with weak hands. If that's true then make another huge bet and get called by a weak hand.

It is slightly over a pot sized bet. I judged by villain's past dealings with me that he is thinking on some level and trying to outplay me, especially after stacking him. I make the bet to look like I'm trying to represent a 3 which he would look at as nonsense. This will make him call with any King, some jacks and pocket pairs he peeled the flop with.

Bet fold or bet call is more profitable than check calling, if your right.

To add to the villain's description, he called a raise to 20 and a reraise by a short stack to 28 with 34, and called a raise to 20 with 78o. So all combos of Q10 are in his range on the turn. AJ, QJ, J10, J9 J8 are certainly in his range on the turn as well as a variety of kings. I just want people to keep in mind that all of these terrible hands will shove the river if checked to but will almost never do so if bet. However, a flush will ALWAYS shove.

My thinking is also that if he is willing to call preflop raises of that size with such garbage, he will also call this flop with hands like AsQs, As10s etc

check call he should fire huge with his bluffs/lesser value hands after u show such weakness on such a big pot.....and he hates you

Surprised the hand didn't get much attention, but yeah this was my thinking, and I won't go into much detail on ranges since I doubt anyone cares. For anyone who does though

Results:

I check, villain instantly announces all in. I call and villain tosses his cards into the muck and says you're good.

lmao exactly

this is one of the worst times possible to apply a bet fold strategy ...

Still lost on your previous hh, you check raised a flush draw and got there, then checked twice?

As the hand is written out, it's a little confusing. Start w the stacks and include the raise size pf, and pot sizes. i saw results so I'll keep my thoughts to myself on river.

Yea he butchered all that, I assume raise size pf was 10-15 so around a 50 pot (4 players) on flop and 120 on flop where we pot it

and yes he checked twice after getting there lol that was weird

I'm always reluctant to rely heavily on an OP's read when evaluating these hands. Too many biases, not enough information. But in this case, if we REALLY believe that the villain is more interested in a pissing contest than playing poker, then I think checking is a gigantic blunder.

I'll agree, straightforward ABC poker says check/call, easy game.

If we're convinced that villain's range has enough non-trips, non-boat, non-flush hands that we can profitably go to the felt...then challenge him to a game of chicken. Dare him to wimp out of the hand, and induce the bluff that you're eager to snap off.

Bet 60

He'll never fold. Not if we're relying on the read you've provided. If this is really a "whip 'em out and measure 'em" moment and not really a poker situation, then he's never ever going to fold. He'll attempt the bluff every single time.

You'll still pay off his better hands, but that was a decision you made before the street started. So if we're relying on OP's reads, and we believe them to be credible, substantial, and relevant....then you have to make a weak lead on this river and call it all off when he raises.

Though....sensible players would check/call. Just sayin'

no. This is terrible.

By betting anything you allow him to spite-call, or even fold his air and decide he will wait for the next hand. With this dynamic, and more importantly this runout, he is snap shoving ANY hand he has to a river check almost everytime. Why give him ANY chance to do otherwise?

just...no

Sorry to thread jack, but everyone should take note of this ^

This is a what we call "TILT"

Here is a person who is inventing logic and levelling himself into different lines of thinking because of a personal grudge. It doesn't matter what I posted, he would find a way to contradict it.

Great, let him spite call. We lose the minimum to his weak flushes and suckouts with a 3.


As I said, if we're relying on the OP's description that this isn't a poker hand but rather a test of machismo, then you have to make the weak lead. You can't risk a check back, which he may do if he thinks we have a flush, which he might.

I'm interested in hearing more about this hand. Why didn't you bet the turn or the river after making a flush?

Is the V in question aggro, and you expected him to bet your flush for you?

Im not attacking you, youre not that important, Im just on this forum to debate and discuss proper thinking, and all your thinking seems to be, flawed.

point and case, wtf are you talking about, hes not gonna spite call with those hands, hes gona shove, and you said ur calling anyways, so i dont get your thinking once again

you need to pay attention to the posters here (not me) and learn something instead of being condescending to them when they tell you why your thinking is flawed (once again, not referring to myself, you do this in every thread with all of them)

river is a very clear bet imo, villain should have much more marginal made hands in his range that are prob willing to call a bet given history but should happily check behind, and he should not have all that many draws given our psb on a paired board ott. if he indeed does call with a draw ott, a lot of his draws get there too
a c/ is imo just targeting the QT part of his range, which should be tiny

i believe OP got lucky that villain chose to decide to bluff here, but with the info available, and breaking the hand down, i think a bet is far better since we might get a lot of crying calls from hands which should happily check behind out of a range containing mostly decent made hands with enough sdv to check

i think you didnt read the metagame between villian and hero in the OP

i did
seems to me villain just likes to call somewhat light

This was the first hand he played and I didn't know what to expect from him. However, once the flush got there on the turn I felt betting would make my hand too obvious, as does betting the river after checking the turn. So I felt that triple checking would make me look like a hand that was strong on the flop and scared of the flush or complete air. I was incredibly surprised when he showed a straight that hadn't bet.

Considering how light he calls preflop, he has all combos of q10 which is pretty sizable. He should also have tons of weak kings by the river and none of them can call any sizable river bet. If he believed I was betting with a flush draw I got there, if I was betting with a king he was never good to begin with. He is perfectly capable of turning weak hands with some showdown value into bluffs on the river. It doesn't just have to be q10, but there's plenty of that anyway.

i don´t know, all that feels like assumptions tbh, only thing we know is he called you down somewhat light once and c/behind a str8 on a 3flush board on the river.
doesn´t seem like the bet-happiest guy, but might talk himself into calling a lot.

lol he clearly hates heros guts right now, i think thats quite obvious

much harder for him to talk himself into ANOTHER light call than to try and steal this pot when heros shows such weakness on river (remember, the key is the runout - on this sort of runout, you can check to almost ANY villian and he will stab at it, its just perfect)

and judging by results (not that I want to be results oriented), this kid snap shoved 300 dollars, lmao, and we allowed him to do this, standard