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Old 08-26-2015, 12:26 PM   #1
JamesFrancis
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KJ with AKJ ... Q board

Playing a .25/.50 home game. The level of play is very high. Before the game I mentioned that I don't play online, and I've been pegged as the fish ever since. Several of these guys are wannabe professionals.

I've played this game a handful of times over the past few months; when I first played it, I was probably the 2nd best player at my table, if not the best. But the weak players have been weeded out ... At the table last night, I think I might have been the 2nd worst.

My image is weak-passive. I've been getting a lot of marginal hands like 33 in MP or Q9s OTB, playing them passively, and folding on the flop to aggression. In general my choices have been better suited to a weak 1-2 casino game than this tough, aggressive table.

OTTH

V1: UTG limps. He's LAG-y. Chatty, gets distracted, but has put in a lot of hours in casinos, apparently.

V2: MP limps. He's hyper-LAG.

V3: SB completes. He's tight.

I'm in the BB with KJ. I decline my option. I don't really want to play this hand out of position with a swollen pot. I have $25 left from my $50 buy-in. Everyone else covers.

Flop ($2)
AKJ with two diamonds (I have no diamonds in my hand).

SB limps.
I bet $1, wanting at least one caller.
V1 and V2 call. V3 folds.

Turn ($5) is the Q. The board now is AKQJ with two diamonds.

I check. V1 bets $5. V2 folds. I ?
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Old 08-26-2015, 12:49 PM   #2
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Re: KJ with AKJ ... Q board

Fold
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Old 08-26-2015, 12:49 PM   #3
Javanewt
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Re: KJ with AKJ ... Q board

I probably would have bet/fold the turn with that image.

As played, I'd need some sort of read on this guy in this hand. If you think he's on the flush draw, just raise him. A T is pretty likely here, though, but you have a few outs. Just don't call -- I'd raise or fold. For 50bb, I probably just gii against this guy. Would be scarier if he bet $3 or so. A pot bet looks as if he's trying to scare you off.
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Old 08-26-2015, 01:11 PM   #4
SpexDome
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Re: KJ with AKJ ... Q board

Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt View Post
I probably would have bet/fold the turn with that image.

As played, I'd need some sort of read on this guy in this hand. If you think he's on the flush draw, just raise him. A T is pretty likely here, though, but you have a few outs. Just don't call -- I'd raise or fold. For 50bb, I probably just gii against this guy. Would be scarier if he bet $3 or so. A pot bet looks as if he's trying to scare you off.
Sorry to single you out sweetheart, but this kind of thinking is exactly how LAG's make money.

Here is the vilalin's thought process...

Limped pot, broadways on board. Dude leads and I have [single pair, flush draw, combo draw], I call.....turn brings a 4 card straight and that guy who has been passively playing crap and folding to aggression just checked. He wants a showdown like a junkie wants a fix. I'm gonna bet full pot here, and get him to fold everything that's not a straight. If he calls, I'll bet again if the flush doesn't come....oh wait, he raised? LOL, nice trap meatball, I guess I won't bluff again with my diamond draw, or my pocket 8's.

Against this field, out of position, I would have checked the flop. It's ace high, big cards. If no one bets, then you can be sure that no one has anything, and sigh at your bad luck. But I really don't see this board checking through. I'd plan to check-call every street after the flop. The Q on the turn makes it kinda dicey, so as I mentioned before....fold.

You can't go around giving LAG's perfect information. Check-raising all-in doesn't get the villain to fold hands better than ours very much. I'd expect to get called by AK,AJ, AQ, KQ, sets, and pair+flush draws. Our lead on the flop means that the only straight we can have is AT, so I'd expect to get looked up pretty light. The raise doesn't get called by hands worse than ours either. Flush draws and pocket 9's that may have bluffed on the river are gone.
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Old 08-26-2015, 01:14 PM   #5
Jamitontheriver
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Re: KJ with AKJ ... Q board

Wow this sounds like a cutthroat .25/.50 game. I'm fine with your play assuming you check/folded the turn. You are basically never ahead here and it seems like a bad time to turn into a bluff. Just take your lumps since you got one of the worst turn cards in the deck and make sure that next time you have the nuts you induce by acting weak since you are playing into that image.
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Old 08-26-2015, 01:14 PM   #6
iraisetoomuch
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Re: KJ with AKJ ... Q board

Snap fold on the turn.
I'd either check the flop or pot it.
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Old 08-26-2015, 01:47 PM   #7
JamesFrancis
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Re: KJ with AKJ ... Q board

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamitontheriver View Post
Wow this sounds like a cutthroat .25/.50 game. I'm fine with your play assuming you check/folded the turn. You are basically never ahead here and it seems like a bad time to turn into a bluff. Just take your lumps since you got one of the worst turn cards in the deck and make sure that next time you have the nuts you induce by acting weak since you are playing into that image.
Yeah, I'm happy to be among better players when the buy-ins are only $50. It's almost like I'm paying for coaching.

I did indeed snap fold. I got to thinking about it later since I wanted to figure out if I had played too passively at any point, since I was doing a whole lot of folding. I think you could argue that my check on the turn was a giant sign saying "please bluff me!" but seeing the responses makes me feel better.

Later in the game I was able to exploit my image 2 or 3 times ... I see a dry flop, a guy raises into me expecting a fold, I bluff-reraise and he folds, thinking a weak-passive must have the goods.
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:44 PM   #8
jimicornerstone
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Re: KJ with AKJ ... Q board

I'd over bet the flop, at these stakes players will generally call with the same range because wtf it's only a few bucks. Other than that you played it fine.
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:44 PM   #9
BirdsallSa
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Re: KJ with AKJ ... Q board

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesFrancis View Post
Playing a .25/.50 home game. The level of play is very high. Before the game I mentioned that I don't play online, and I've been pegged as the fish ever since. Several of these guys are wannabe professionals.

I've played this game a handful of times over the past few months; when I first played it, I was probably the 2nd best player at my table, if not the best. But the weak players have been weeded out ... At the table last night, I think I might have been the 2nd worst.

My image is weak-passive. I've been getting a lot of marginal hands like 33 in MP or Q9s OTB, playing them passively, and folding on the flop to aggression. In general my choices have been better suited to a weak 1-2 casino game than this tough, aggressive table.

OTTH

V1: UTG limps. He's LAG-y. Chatty, gets distracted, but has put in a lot of hours in casinos, apparently.

V2: MP limps. He's hyper-LAG.

V3: SB completes. He's tight.

I'm in the BB with KJ. I decline my option. I don't really want to play this hand out of position with a swollen pot. I have $25 left from my $50 buy-in. Everyone else covers.

Flop ($2)
AKJ with two diamonds (I have no diamonds in my hand).

SB limps.
I bet $1, wanting at least one caller.
V1 and V2 call. V3 folds.

Turn ($5) is the Q. The board now is AKQJ with two diamonds.

I check. V1 bets $5. V2 folds. I ?
Is this post serious?
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Old 08-26-2015, 04:16 PM   #10
Javanewt
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Re: KJ with AKJ ... Q board

Sorry, but if I flop two pair against lags with only 50bb (which I might have at 2 a.m. playing for fun drunk -- otherwise I would top off), I'm not folding to their aggression when I've played my hand this way.

Personally, I would not have donked the flop and if I did decide to donk, it would have been more than $1 (at least pot), but here we are.

Edit: forgot to add that I would have bet into hero with almost any two cards.

Last edited by Javanewt; 08-26-2015 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 08-26-2015, 04:42 PM   #11
SpexDome
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Re: KJ with AKJ ... Q board

You don't have to fold to their aggression, but raising with 73rd nuts isn't the answer either. LAGs prey on a mismatch of information. They bet constantly, concealing the strength of their hand, while their opponents predictably fold when they miss and raise when they hit.

They prey on people who make the wrong adjustment of trying to trap them. Check/raising them just gives them perfect information to make sure that you never get paid off. The correct way to exploit them is to check and call all of your good and great hands. Bottom two out of position against two lags is a textbook example. This is an automatic check/call on all three streets unless a Q or T falls.

Leading the flop was bad, but check/raising the turn would be worse.
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Old 08-26-2015, 04:46 PM   #12
PajamaBottoms
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Re: KJ with AKJ ... Q board

lag and 'hyper lag' both limp

>what am I reading
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