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Old 03-15-2019, 03:32 PM   #1
HollywoodLA
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Kings on a wet board

3/5 game
New poker room, just played for an hour, so consider V as unknown.

UGT limp 5
Middle (V) limp 5
SB (H) raise to 40 (KdKh)
both call

Flop (125)
QdJcTd
Check through

Turn(125)
QdJcTd7s
H: bet 70 , V snap call

River (365)
QdJcTd7s2c
H: bet 140, V raise to 345

C/C river? Or small blocking bet/fold or B/C?
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:18 AM   #2
warlockjd
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Re: Kings on a wet board

Quote:
Originally Posted by HollywoodLA View Post
3/5 game
New poker room, just played for an hour, so consider V as unknown.

UGT limp 5
Middle (V) limp 5
SB (H) raise to 40 (KdKh)
both call

Flop (125)
QdJcTd
Check through

Turn(125)
QdJcTd7s
H: bet 70 , V snap call

River (365)
QdJcTd7s2c
H: bet 140, V raise to 345

C/C river? Or small blocking bet/fold or B/C?
You should have really good reads on all villains after an hour of play.

Bet $100 on flop. Assuming one call, bet $250 on the turn.
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:41 AM   #3
bailashtoreth
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Re: Kings on a wet board

Quote:
Originally Posted by warlockjd View Post
You should have really good reads on all villains after an hour of play.

Bet $100 on flop. Assuming one call, bet $250 on the turn.
That sizing is way too big. It folds out everything but the hands you are behind. 250 on turn just leaves the nuts. Congrats, you lose.

Xf river
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Old 03-16-2019, 02:05 AM   #4
johnnyBuz
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Re: Kings on a wet board

What are the effective stacks brah. Most important piece of info needs to be in every post.

x/c river. Your hand is way under repped so villain should have the green light to steal or even bet a J or T for value.
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Old 03-16-2019, 04:00 AM   #5
Minatorr
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Re: Kings on a wet board

Flop check good

Turn lead good

River bet larger or x. Why is everyone downbetting rivers and level themselves like this? You’re most likely either going to overfold or overcall, both of which is hugely -EV and much worse than just bet big and fold to a raise or x.

Ap you cant go wrong folding river but if his overall range spazzes bc of your bet sizing, you lost a ton of chips in ev
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Old 03-18-2019, 12:31 PM   #6
HollywoodLA
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Re: Kings on a wet board

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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
What are the effective stacks brah. Most important piece of info needs to be in every post.

x/c river. Your hand is way under repped so villain should have the green light to steal or even bet a J or T for value.
Yes I forgot.
Effective stack:
H: 600ish
V: 800~900 I recall
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Old 03-18-2019, 12:48 PM   #7
joe412
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Re: Kings on a wet board

Quote:
Originally Posted by HollywoodLA View Post
3/5 game
Flop (125)
QdJcTd
Check through
I would bet this flop. $80 or so. Villians have a lot of pair + draw in their range. There are lots of bad turn cards for your hand. Plus your range smashes this board. The worst hand you can have here is like AJ or 99.

Last edited by joe412; 03-18-2019 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:13 PM   #8
joe412
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Re: Kings on a wet board

Quote:
Originally Posted by HollywoodLA View Post
River (365)
QdJcTd7s2c
H: bet 140, V raise to 345

C/C river? Or small blocking bet/fold or B/C?
I don't think you can bet this river. I would check call. I would expect a hand like Q9/Q8 to value bet river if you check. Some 2 pair hands should value bet as well if you check river, but I am ruling out K9 and AK mostly (those hands would at least contemplate a raise on the turn). You may induce bluffs from Ax, a random 9, and busted clubs.
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:48 PM   #9
HollywoodLA
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Re: Kings on a wet board

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Originally Posted by joe412 View Post
I don't think you can bet this river. I would check call. I would expect a hand like Q9/Q8 to value bet river if you check. Some 2 pair hands should value bet as well if you check river, but I am ruling out K9 and AK mostly (those hands would at least contemplate a raise on the turn). You may induce bluffs from Ax, a random 9, and busted clubs.
I think you're on the right track.
I called and V showed QQ.

A terrible read but the thought behind was:
1) QQ/JJ/TT would have not limp/call pre.
2) Even if, I would expect some action either on the flop(bet) or turn(reraise) on this wet board.
3) same for AK, K9, 89
4) Therefore I put him on a missed draw AJd, ATd J9d..with little showdown value.

any thoughts? Is V's line normal?
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:58 PM   #10
Pechorin
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Re: Kings on a wet board

The hands that called limp overcalled pre that you beat on this river are bluffs from A rag type hands or suited connectors, that is assuming he is capable of bluff raising the river. His river raises are strongly weighted for value here. Combos of QJ, QT, JT, 89 in his limp overcall range. AP fold.
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:39 PM   #11
jc315
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Re: Kings on a wet board

Quote:
Originally Posted by warlockjd View Post
You should have really good reads on all villains after an hour of play.
this is not true at all


i prefer betting river over x/c. his hand looks so weak. and our hand is underrepped, can get looked up light. like i expect AJ to call river but not necessarily value bet.
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:48 PM   #12
Minatorr
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Re: Kings on a wet board

Quote:
Originally Posted by HollywoodLA View Post
I think you're on the right track.
I called and V showed QQ.

A terrible read but the thought behind was:
1) QQ/JJ/TT would have not limp/call pre.
2) Even if, I would expect some action either on the flop(bet) or turn(reraise) on this wet board.
3) same for AK, K9, 89
4) Therefore I put him on a missed draw AJd, ATd J9d..with little showdown value.

any thoughts? Is V's line normal?
No, but river raises are nutted so fold unless you have a nutty hand.

I wouldn't say QQ/JJ and especially TT never limp/call pre.

Sometimes people do dumb **** with strong hands to trap, even if it is a terrible board to trap

Most people don't bluff raise missed draws at this stakes especially vs a "big" river bet.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:26 AM   #13
joe412
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Re: Kings on a wet board

Quote:
Originally Posted by HollywoodLA View Post
any thoughts? Is V's line normal?
I think the villain should have put a raise in on the turn, but that's just me. He got lucky you were as strong as you were and got some $ in on the river. Also your pot amounts don't add up. Did you mean $265 on the river?

I think once you bet and the villain raises, that's a huge red flag. I notice very few river raises with air in those live games. Betting puts you in a gross spot. I prefer to play my KK more like KQ after the insta-call on the turn. The pot is big enough to check and seduce a bluff from the missed draw hands.

Of course this is after I've thought about the hand for 5-10 minutes. Sitting at the table I probably don't go through most of this analysis. My default would have most likely been to bet flop and try to pick up a read.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:51 AM   #14
hitchens97
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Re: Kings on a wet board

Unless you have proof otherwise, you have to assume Villain's river raise is very strong and fold.

I so rarely see bluffs here at 1/2 or 1/3 and when I do it's at small absolute numbers, like a river bet of 20 raised to 60.
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:19 PM   #15
hitchens97
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Re: Kings on a wet board

Quote:
Originally Posted by HollywoodLA View Post
I think you're on the right track.
I called and V showed QQ.

A terrible read but the thought behind was:
1) QQ/JJ/TT would have not limp/call pre.
2) Even if, I would expect some action either on the flop(bet) or turn(reraise) on this wet board.
3) same for AK, K9, 89
4) Therefore I put him on a missed draw AJd, ATd J9d..with little showdown value.

any thoughts? Is V's line normal?
I see way more limped big pockets than I see big river raise bluffs.
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:34 PM   #16
joe412
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Re: Kings on a wet board

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Originally Posted by hitchens97 View Post
I see way more limped big pockets than I see big river raise bluffs.
I agree with this. At 1/2 live poker, I see players intentionally under representing hands like AK, QQ and JJ.
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