2/2 very good game

Hero sitting on 1100 after buying in 300. Very good image. Won a lot of pots with good hands at showdown, very active in position. Only 3! with KK and QQ and it both went to showdown. Won a lot of hands by raising and cbetting as well. "Table captain"

V1 asian loose bad young guy. playing 70% of hands, down 1500, keeps topping off to 500, sitting on around 540. Have isolated a lot of his limps and gotten the better of him the whole session. First hand we played I 3! KK in p and he paid me off 3 streets (full double up) with only 2nd pair. Raising preflop a lot.

V1 opens to 8 over 1 limp in MP, HJ calls (ok rec, 400), Hero has K2 and 3! to 42 on BTN, SB calls (50s Belgium guy, tight 400), BB calls (old Brit, 300), V1 calls HJ calls. Wow. Did not expect this.this was my third 3! of the session.


Pot 210
Flop
K J 8, checks to Hero who bets 96 (thoughts please). V1 calls.

Pot 402
Turn
K J 8 6
Checks to hero, hero?

I understand that you want to isolate the bad Asian dude here, but isolating with K2s by three betting seems spewy. You're not even isolating one of his limps here, he raised so he probably has some kind of hand and not complete trash. I think there are better spots to make this play.

I don't like the flop bet. You've got top pair no kicker on an extremely wet board with 4 other people in the hand. This seems like another spot where we're putting money into a pot in a bad spot but luckily it seems to work out for us as only Villain comes along to the turn.

What do we know about Villain? You say he's loose, but how aggressive is he? Can you bet with impunity against him knowing that he will call with less but wont raise as a bluff? Does he call on draws with improper odds? I'd probably check this turn for pot control regardless because at the end of the day our hand isn't very strong and this guy's likely to go to showdown with us, and a value bet here would be pretty thin.

But I'd check turn with the intention of getting to showdown as cheaply as possible.

sorry,

edited it. Hero turns flush draw.

I don't like the 3b against a guy that's shown he'll call OOP with a marginal hand and then stack off with it.

I would guess you're thinking now that you've shown how good your 3b range is, they're going to give you lots of credit and fold. But at LLSNL, people often don't make those adjustments. After all, presumably the default assumption would be that you have a tight 3b range until you show you don't -- but V clearly didn't assume that.

To crush LLSNL, determine V's flaws and then assume they're not going to change them. "Adjustment to your opponent" is not exactly the hallmark of LLSNL play. (When you find V's that do adjust, obviously take that into account.)

Don't force bad LLSNL players to exploit you by playing to their strengths. If V calls too much, bluffing him just forces him to take your money from you.

Cbetting into five people, one of whom has showed he can stack off with 2nd pair, is probably just burning money. You made your play preflop, it didn't work. Don't now be the guy that someone else gets to say stacked off with TPNK in a 5-way pot.

As played, V has like 400 back. You're in a sick spot. If you check back turn and he shoves you're getting 2:1. Hard to imagine you're good, but you showed weakness so maybe he is bluffing. If you shove, you might get some calls from a J, but it seems like you're certainly getting called by any TP or better.

V doesn't seem that aggessive, so perhaps checking back the turn and calling the river is viable. V may not shove, allowing us to keep some of our stack even if we're beat. I could also see shoving the turn, hoping to get calls from hands we beat. I'm roughly indifferent between these two choices.

I think it was maybe dgiharris that suggested in one post that, after the session, poster go home and repeatedly kick themselves in the 'nards to remind themselves not to do that again .

Edit: I assume 8s is actually 8c? In any case, that's good. I'm not sure it changes the turn play though. Checking back allows you to see your draw for free and still snap off a bluff or bet with weaker hand) while also vbetting if it comes in and V checks. OTOH, if you shove, you now have more equity when called and maybe there are few more worse hands that can call.

Fold pre. Don't 3bet.
The big reason is "villain payed me off with second pair for 3 streets".

You have no FE here. And little ability to win the pot improved or unimproved. And we don't really like any flop other than 22x or K2x rainbow.

Take the free card.

I agree that preflop is a bit spewey here.

Preflop I like Kxs Axs as a lite 3! With dead money when the PFR is reasonably wide and has a fold button. Here that's not the case so this is more an ISO play than a straight squeeze pre. I'd prefer to ISO with stronger big card hands than this.

Regardless a cold call by a tight SB foils our plan and hitches up the call train.

But now that we've made our crappy TP 5 ways we do have to play the hand.

I think I differ in opinion than some on the flop and I'd be interested in further discussion about it.

I'm torn between a small bet otf and a check. We are ahead on this flop quite a bit but it is sort of wa/WB vs everyone except v1. But it seems the blinds should have lots of pairs in their range so unless they flopped sets they are folding their combined 8% equity and we may ISO the original ISO target.... So idk maybe cbetting into the crowd isn't as bad as it first seems??

Obv concerned about stack comittment though with TPNK. So any bet is a b/f and small seems right if we choose to bet... Like 1/3-1/2 pot.

Anyway AP...

Since we are heads up and presumably ahead of villain's range with outs to 2nd nuts and a likely best 2p I'm not sure why we wouldn't bet the turn now but shoving pot expecting to get called by worse seems rather optimistic.

I'm thinking smallish again to keep his range wide to include his Jx. We may not get much value on club rivers so a small turn bet could also help commit him to calling when our flush hits while getting value from Jx.

If we think he could c/r the turn I'm cool with checking back to get thin value on some rivers or take a showdown but the read seems to be he's a station.

All of this is pretty specific to the read provided on this villain.

I think preflop is kinda spewy. Against this villain I'd much rather 3 bet a hand like AJ or KQ.

Check flop.

As played, I think I would check, but this guy seems bad enough that I think betting is certainly defensible and possibly correct.

On the flop, we've got a decidedly marginal hand, very little fold equity, and we're closing the action. I think we're probably ahead of V, but I don't think we're ahead of four preflop 3b callers. Someone with a monster might well elect to x/r here since we 3b pre.

I'd like to keep the pot small (even though it's pretty likely that's not going to happen). Checking eliminates one street of betting, while betting very possibly allows it all to go in now and we'll have to fold.

If pulse-pounding action breaks out on the turn, we'll be in great position to observe it all and slide deftly aside without losing any more. If the turn gets checked through, or if an early bet is folded to us, we'll have to play poker.

Overall, I feel pretty confident checking the turn back is best. But I am here to learn.

AP on the turn, I agree with your assessment, but I still want to play a small pot unless we improve and we will be able to get value from our flush or 2P on the river.

I guess my theme is we have position. Checking on the flop and/or the turn allows us to gather more information and (OTT) to maximize the value of our draws by getting paid off when we hit and perhaps having to pay less when they don't. There's some chance we'll give the free card that beats us, but there's also some chance we're already beat. Under those circumstances, I think we win more/lose less by checking the turn back.

Part of my thinking is that we have a small hand and so I want to play a small pot. That may be flat dead wrong. Against this guy, maybe we do have a big hand. In which case we should bet turn and river to gii. It is certainly possible that we have the best hand and that V will call with worse. In that case, yeah, bet turn and river to keep him in and get paid. The draws just add some equity those times we do happen to be behind.

tl;dr: I feel confident checking the turn would have been best. I can see either checking the turn or betting around $135 on the turn and shoving $265 on the river.

I range V on sets, Kx, 2pair, and Q10 here. We are only ahead of q10 in this spot, and we wont be able to make Kx fold. We need to check the turn and hope to bink our flush. Fold to any river bet. Check behind if V checks.

FMP.

Your 3 bet isn't really needed in this spot. There is very little dead money so you are risking 42$ to win 12. Risk vs reward isn't there. As played you should be checking back flop. If we bet and are called we don't have the best hand which means when we bet we are never called by worse. As played the turn is a check. We can't expect him to be calling with 2nd pair in a huge multi way pot. If we bink we can go for value on the river.

Thanks a lot for the answers.

I agree that the preflop 3! was not the right move. In the moment everything was going my way and I was overcome by this momentum. I thought against tight abc blinds and and an abc inbetween i could create a situation where either a) I win the pot right here or b) I get heads up vs him. I really dont mind playing a bad K vs him in positions because so far everything that I had seen (and also shared with you) lead me to believe he is a bad spewy station that is loose pre and opens a lot, but passive cally post. I thought he would fold every flop he misses and make it possible to play perfect post flop. I agree that there wasnt really enough money in the pot to make this a profitable spot to attack.

Once I get to the flop as played, I think my bet is actually good. It is a 3! pot from a player with a winning image and good image, which should lead the others towards a tighter range. Except for V the others are leaning heavily towards pps and I should bet here to fold out all pps ass well as possible draws. My 3! in a way functions like a protecter for the others not to spazz out. I higly doubt to get raised by a flush draw or straight draw and the only hands that would raise me as the pre r with my image are KK (which we can discount because of preflop), JJ and 88. Thats why I bet pretty small, because it achieves what a big bet does as well. We fold out the inbetween hands and take it down often enough.

Now when we arrive on the turn this is a clear check back and evaluate river, with the big hope of a club coming.

While I agree all the players except mr. fishy have pocket pair heavy ranges (1) they also have a lot of AK, especially the cold callers in the blinds, (2) we don't gain a ton by getting people to fold pocket pairs, and (3) when we get action from anyone besides our good friend we will usually be drawing very thin.

Preflop is marginally too aggro but still fine. Flop is good, bet small on the turn for value.