Hi. At a 2/5 live game last night, I effectively went all-in with a K high flush, and lost to an A hi flush. Did I play this right?

Villain: Not many reads. Seems to be around VPIP 20/PFR 15. Average skill.


Preflop: Hero is UTG with 68BB stack, villain is in MP with 100BB stack.
Hero: Kc4c. Bets 4BB, 2 callers.

Flop: 6cTcKd.
Hero bets 0.5x pot with flush draw. Villain calls (other folds).

Turn: 5c.
Now I have flush. Hero checks - to induce a bet. Villain bets 0.7x pot, hero calls. I only call as realise he also has the flush.

River: 2c
Hero checks, as concerned villain has Ac, but plan to call. Villain bets 0.7x pot. I think he may have Qc, so can't fold Kc. I call.

He shows Ac9c. I lose almost my whole stack.

Did I play this right, or should one assume that with four to a flush on the board, and villain betting turn and river, that he has the A?

Thanks

Fold pre.

As played, bet turn. And gotta lose that money on the river.

But really, for the love of god, fold pre.

Ac4c is a fold pre in most cases utg unless you're trying to widen your 3! Range vs well known regs. Save this hand for the button

Sorry guys, I realise too loose pre-flop. Was the play with the flush draw, then K high flush, correct on the flop, turn and river?

I dont think you KNEW he had the A high flush, you only feared it. Couldn't he also have Q or J- high flush, or even lower? I'm guessing yes. And if so, then the correct play is to get your stack in, win most of the time, and lose sometimes.

Also agree w fold pre.

Thanks. Yes I didnt KNOW he had it, I "was concerned" he had it.

Yes I think I was right to call but painful to lose the stack. I guess it is a pure gamble whether he has the Q or A...

fold pre obv

x/shove the turn, or bet it, x/c bad

WTF are u Doing with 68 bb??

Eh? I had 100 big blinds ($500) and lost some on prior hands. Strange question.

Thanks. I get the check shove, but could still lose stack (can't remember if his second pocket card was a club). Guess that's the name of the game. Same with bet - I get it - if he is still one club short I win the pot. Thanks.

Flop bet seems too small

You said -> Preflop: Hero is UTG with 68BB stack, villain is in MP with 100BB stack.

@nzrod - they are implying that you should not be sitting with 68bb even if you had 100bb prior at some point. they are implying that it is not optimal for you to keep your stack at 68bb, you should re-buy/top off (assuming your casino allows).

In terms of formatting, having actual pot size would matter. Turn you should be checking to check/raise. I don't get what you mean by "I could still lose stack" - are you implying you aren't check/raising because you are scared he might have the nut flush? If so... you are going to have a hard time making money in this game if you're afraid of every hand that beats you. K high flush on a 3-card flush board is an absolute monster. If he has the nut flush then so be it.

As played, never folding the river since you've committed most your stack and you were short stacked to begin with and he can have worse hands sometimes. You should just be shoving this river. How much did you have behind? Like 10 bb? There's just no reason to call and leave 10bb behind. Makes no sense. Again, if he has the Ac, then sucks. Looks like he had AcXc so it's even a bigger cooler but oh well.

Buying in full is only an advantage for a winning player, and it's clear the OP isn't there yet. He can't be faulted for not topping off.

I would stick to 1|2 while you're learning the game unless the money is irrelevant to you and you prefer 2|5 for some reason.

Right but what is weird with having 68BB?? 2 hours earlier i had about 130BB. Depends how much you win and lose after you sit down!

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Fk off with the insult Brown.
I sat down with 100BB but stack sizes change with each hand.
I would top off if I got much lower but noone where i play tops off for minor variations, only when down to say under 50. If you tell me you top off after one or two losing hands then you are a little weird and it would slow the game down if everyone tops off after a losing hand. NOONE does that in Aus unless say down to half stack. I usually build it back up. Could give several pros for not topping off with minor variations (and 100 down to about 70 is not major) but completely off topic.

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Jc, thanks. So i could have played turn and river better but in any event I would have got all in or thereabouts (i just called his river bet and had about 5 left). So regardless of how well i could have played it i would have lost my stack, and not folded.

That I guess is the answer I was looking for. Do you EVER fold a king high flush when you think someone may have A high as they are betting confidently on turn and river into a flushy board, or do you always just take the gamble (as they may have J or Q)?

Thanks

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I wasn't insulting you, and if you want to get better at poker, it might help to drop the ego down a notch.

Everybody starts out as a losing player, there's no shame in it. The fact that you are on here trying to improve your game puts you way ahead most people.

Thanks

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Topping off hardly slows the game at all though. I wouldn't worry much about what people think you'd be surprised that most will not notice nor care for you lost the money and have every right to refill it

OP, please do not post results. It biases responses and almost always turns in to a ****-show. Get up to your decision point and then stop.

This hand is always a fold pre UTG. Bad hand and bad position mean don't play, even if you are by far the strongest player at the table. You just cannot overcome a disadvantage that great consistently.

AP, flop is fine with TP and 2ndNFD.

Turn is horrible. Why are you playing backward? You now have the second nuts and a hand that doesn't look like a flush (due to your flop bet). You should often get bets called, but he's never taking over the betting for you without having the flush himself. Get value!

AP, OK, he bet. His range is basically a little bit of air that is hoping you're afraid of the flush, and a crap-ton of flushes. I'd go ahead and shove it in here. You're committed and another club will kill your hand (if he has, for example AcTd) or your action (vs eg. 8c9c).

AP to river; sigh/call. He's never betting here with worse than Jc, and often only with the A, but we're committed with the second nuts and a few combos in his range that we beat.

As to topping up, put a few greens in your pocket when you buy-in and use them for top-up if you get below 85bb. Takes no time at all, and if it is notied at all, it just makes you look a little degen.

But most of all, fold pre. This hand is an example of the cascading effect of a small bad decision early. It is very reminiscent of the old limon quote:

The Limon quote is awesome.

OP, regarding starting stack: I don't care about the top-off debate, you've heard from people about that.

However, you don't understand that as stack sizes fluctuate, so does your starting hand selection. Many losing players actually loosen their game up when they're short stacked because they think "gambling when I won't lose too much money" is a good idea. This is a terrible idea because the size of the pots you do win will never make up for the number of pots you will lose. Understacking how effective stacks affects game play is absolutely fundamental to being a winning player. When you have 68BB you should be playing fewer hands, not more, and those hands should be premium hands.

As other people have told you, K4cc is never an open UTG. There's actually absolutely no position where the actual value of the hand makes it worth opening. Representational or positional value, sure. But not the actual hand, because roughly 45% of hands people have beat you. (Math nerds can correct that number.)

I'm not going to beat a dead horse but I disagree with your decision making every step of the way, and I I am guessing the vast majority of posters will as well.

He can be faulted for opening K4s from UTG while 68 BB's deep however (not that there is any proper chip stack that makes that play correct anyway).

Garick

Thanks for your wonderful response (and I do note how often you have posted here - legend). I won't post the end results of hands in the future.

I like the quote and it is a good one.

"Turn is horrible. Why are you playing backward? You now have the second nuts and a hand that doesn't look like a flush (due to your flop bet). You should often get bets called, but he's never taking over the betting for you without having the flush himself." - true. If I am going to check, I should check-shove or at least check-raise. Point.

"As to topping up, put a few greens in your pocket when you buy-in and use them for top-up if you get below 85bb. Takes no time at all, and if it is notied at all, it just makes you look a little degen." - sure.

Thanks