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JQs OTB Deep 1-2 multiway JQs OTB Deep 1-2 multiway

09-23-2013 , 09:55 AM
I'll try to keep this short since i'm pretty sure I know the answer...
Hero: ~350
Vil1: 600
Vil2: 400
Vil3: 250
(maxbuy 300)

At the table for 1.5 hours, easy reads on all 3 players
Hero: Taken down a pot or 2, folded a pot or 2 TAG image
Vil 1 = Very tight against raises, can fold top pair
Vil 2 = Loosey passive
Vil 3 = Calling station, will call a fd or tpwk for 3 streets

Vil 1 UTG Vil 2 MP Vil 3 HJ Hero Btn

Hero: QsJs on Btn
Raise 15 pf, the 3 vil's call.
Flop is 9h10c5h
Vil 1 donks 50, Vil 2 call, Vil 3 call, Hero?
JQs OTB Deep 1-2 multiway Quote
09-23-2013 , 10:24 AM
I'd call here. You have to be prepared to fold turn to major aggression though..even if you hit top pair....or if you hit a straight and flush gets there. Great thing about these villains is that they will tend to play very straightforward here (meaning they will call with draws, raise or bet big with two pairs+, bet small or check call with one pair, etc)
JQs OTB Deep 1-2 multiway Quote
09-23-2013 , 10:27 AM
Someone likely has a flush draw. For a tight player to lead close to pot into three people.....I would say he has TT, 99, 55, or T9s a lot. He may even have QQ, JJ if he's the type to limp call with those. Folding flop is a decent option......raising is the worst by far
JQs OTB Deep 1-2 multiway Quote
09-23-2013 , 10:41 AM
The bet is 50 into a 60 pot. Pretty hefty. I'd call and then play turn accordingly.

Sometimes you get smaller bets as a blocker bet cause they have some sort of draw... In which case I make it 150. I'm also fairly TAG. With the other callers as well, though, I would be hesitant to donate.

Call. If you don't improve dramatically then throw it away.
JQs OTB Deep 1-2 multiway Quote
09-23-2013 , 11:15 AM
id be a nit and fold, youre looking at 6 clean outs (assuming no one is drawing to lower straight, in which case you have less)
JQs OTB Deep 1-2 multiway Quote
09-23-2013 , 11:30 AM
You're getting ~198:50 or ~4:1 to call in position against a tight deep stacked pf player's flop donk bet. Your read and his action suggests you've likely only got six clean outs but you're in position and getting the proper explicit odds to call so calling is correct. However, if this player keeps up with the aggression on the turn, the other villains fold (suggests that you've actually 8 outs) and you miss you should consider folding unless of course he prices you in again. If you do hit on a non flush board based on your pf action and image you should be able to get paid by this player if he's got as little as two pair.
JQs OTB Deep 1-2 multiway Quote
09-23-2013 , 11:30 AM
6 clean outs is more than enough to call given pot odds, that is not even considering implied odds if you hit. OP has position, he should use it.

A shove here would be interesting given your description of V1 and the dead money in the pot. Id only do it where V2 and V3 are certain player types (bad reg who fold too much), but passives willing to call off their stacks with FDs make this awkward imo
JQs OTB Deep 1-2 multiway Quote
09-23-2013 , 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -C-P-
6 clean outs is more than enough to call given pot odds, that is not even considering implied odds if you hit. OP has position, he should use it.
do the pot odds and equity vs implied odds

youre basically only using the equity you have to peel one more card, not two, unless your plan is to go broke drawing to a straight?

when we whiff the turn (and i include heart outs that make our straight = whiffing), and V1 comes barreling again, are we still continuing? prob not, in which case our pot odds and equity on flop should only be calculated to one card to come, not two

and what about our implied odds? are we actually getting them to come along if we make our straight on the turn?
JQs OTB Deep 1-2 multiway Quote
09-23-2013 , 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -C-P-
6 clean outs is more than enough to call given pot odds, that is not even considering implied odds if you hit. OP has position, he should use it.

A shove here would be interesting given your description of V1 and the dead money in the pot. Id only do it where V2 and V3 are certain player types (bad reg who fold too much), but passives willing to call off their stacks with FDs make this awkward imo
I elected to shove though I think it was the wrong play. My reasoning was, V1 folds anything but a set. I actually figured him for the kind of guy that wouldn't even try to get value from someone chasing a fd and would bet 80-100 on a set. I thought he was nit-donking with A10 or JJ. two pair is not in his range here from what I've been hearing and seeing at the table with him, V2-3 no raise (I suppose should have put in the description that I've seen them both raise with overpairs/2 pairs flopped), which means a 1 pair hand or a draw hand.

Is jam ever a good play here? or is it call>fold>jam
V1 "He's definitely got an overpair" -Fold
V2-Fold
V3-Call

Turn 8C
Woot! Nuts!
River 8H
Vil shows Kh8H off to forum.
JQs OTB Deep 1-2 multiway Quote
09-23-2013 , 12:52 PM
call.

fold bricked turn.
JQs OTB Deep 1-2 multiway Quote
09-23-2013 , 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunChips
River 8H
Vil shows Kh8H off to forum.
.
JQs OTB Deep 1-2 multiway Quote
09-23-2013 , 01:59 PM
yeah. this is a marginal shove at best. given stack sizes, I would estimate a flush draw easily has odds to call (needing 2:1) against a range of overpairs. Against your actual hand, he's ahead 2:1. I'm not super excited about calling but we have position and you say you can read the players in case you hit the 8 or K, so call.
JQs OTB Deep 1-2 multiway Quote
09-23-2013 , 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuqAta8
.
I'd call the floor if there was two 8 in the deck.
MISDEAL!
JQs OTB Deep 1-2 multiway Quote

      
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