New to the table, 2nd hand.

5/5 $500

Bb JJs

Utg limps
Utg +1 limps covers me
Cutoff $175 makes it $30
I repop on bb to $80
Utg+1 and cutoff short stack calls.

Flop T 2 9ss

Hero bets $150

Utg+1 shoves, shorty tank calls his last $100 lol
Hero ?

I'm rusty haven't played in a long while.
Completely readless, what is best
A) check fold flop
B) bet/fold.. If so.. Sizing ?
C) bet/call

UTG+1 overlimped then cold called a 3b for 1/6 of stacks? It's possible it's a super aggro table, he was trying to limp/rr with AA/KK, and he decided to flat after it was 3b. It's more likely he's just bad. I can't see doing anything but bet/calling here readless. Yeah he sometimes shows up with an overpair or set, but on a wet board with SPR<2, there's no way we can assign him a narrow enough range to justify folding (whether we've led out or checked).

If we're not willing to gii on flops like this against unknowns for 100bb in a 3b pot, we should consider not 3betting JJ. Edit: nm, the initial raiser has 35bb, duh.

Yea I 3bet to ISO/ all in w the shorty... I don't really care what shorty (cutoff) does at this point.

Villain (utg+1) is mid 20s white.

I only remember old nits doing this readless, and I could 1000% auto put any old man on AA in this spot.

Either way I had trouble seeing what I beat vs villain here readless.

I did have the Js fwiw ,which would block out some combos if he is just bad/loose pre.

Was in a similar spot with JJ last week where an EP limper cold/called my 3bet from the blinds.

Flop was 754cc and he shoved over my cbet with AcQc. I called and he binked the A ott.

So call and pray.

You should be bet calling. Spr is about 2 and you have an overpair.

Yea aks,aqs, KQs are basically the hands I could come up with in-game.

Also, yes it's an overpair , but the board texture is much different than say a 238 board.

I understand the spr argument, and it seems the consensus is to bet/call.

Would a non flush board have an effect on your decision here? same spot.

Td 9s 2c example

Against a range of Ax's, sets, 2Pair we are only 35% to win.

Add in over-pairs and we drop to 25%

The math says it is really close but very thin EV to call at best.

Jj is not a hand we want to be going to war with from the gate as a starting hand.. even w our str8 and flush outs but I think we have to gii here.. Thoughts on 3b jj live, should we do it less seeing as many opps will play kk and even aa so passively .. Also if utg plus one raised pre we would not be 3 w jj live .. I say stick w the plan now. Sucks kinda because of our blockers we don't block any aa kk qq and we even block flush outs for v to have

You pretty much have to stick it in with that SPR on the flop and an overpair.

The vast majority of opponents are raising with KK/AA pf. Ranges, tendencies, position, image, and stack sizes pretty much dwarf any consideration of a limper having AA/KK.

I think just based on the amount of draws on 2t9ss, you have to call

Folding after betting 150 is def not correct readless

So out of ur options, I would choose C and if ur plan was not to go all in on flop, then u shouldve checked

Sebastes, that's a pretty generous range, and it makes me lean to a fold.

Universal, utg limp , utg+1 (villain )over limped , and cutoff ($180) made it $30. I wasn't trying to go to war with JJ, but rather get it all in vs short stack instead of playing a possible 4 way multiway pot with the worst position.

Jay s
Yea, but this is just 5/5 $500 Max buyin ..and they do some funky stuff.

I don't recall many younger guys doing this, I mean I have before, but not as often as I see 70 yr olds do it everytime they get AA.

Khang,

Yes , in-game I felt the same way. But sebastes gave a pretty generous range imo.. And it looks closer than I thought , with a lean towards a fold.

This is an interesting spot (ill be honest, I struggle a lot with spots like this too!). I like the 3b of 80 to target the short stack and hopefully get heads up with a good SPR, but our plan definitely needs to change once the limper comes in. Yes, we have an overpair on the flop, but like you said, when we GII with Js on a 1092ss flop after an over call we really aren't too happy, even at an SPR of 2ish.

My question is, on this flop what hands does the unknown limper put any money in that we are ahead of? AKs, AQs? (Which is still close anway)... All AsXs combos seems waaay too generous to me. 2-3 flush draws combos, 6 QQ, 6 KK, and 6 AA combos? Maybe a couple combos of 9s-10s? And 1 JJ?

Honestly, with ~240 in the pot, I'm leaning toward a b/f of 120-130 if the limper shoves, even if it sounds spewy. We really just do so poorly against his shoving range, especially with a short stack already committed.

I wish I were on a computer to run some of the numbers though!

^We can't simply give an unknown opponent every combo of QQ-AA and zero combos of nonsense that has no business calling a 3b. There are players who can show up with AT here. Or 87, JTs, 66, etc. Obv we should only assign very few combos of those kinds of hands, but we should also only assign a few combos of overpairs (because people usually don't play them this way). It's a ranging question against an unknown, and I don't see why we should be assigning an unknown an OMC range.

3 bet more pre and don't ever check this flop. There are certainly times we bet/fold but to just check this flop is horrible.

Not really a fan of bet folding flop. If I'm not going to cbet I would rather check-call. I think once you bet and get jammed on it is likely that you are beat or that your equity isn't that good. Knowing that makes it tough. Even against draws you have decent equity but then against overpairs and sets it doesn't look good. I could see AKs AQs and 99 or 1010 playing like this as well as overpairs. I'm actually curious if villain would do this if he also had JJ.

Daer
Yes , sebastes ran the numbers on the axs, sets,overpairs and said it was a really thin ev call.

I say it's a generous range because I was thinking villains will probably be more sticky with connected hands vs a7s for example . What does everyone think about that ?
I was thinking more like a2s-a5s, ATs+, 99+, and add in any hands that I missed thinking about, like 78s

Jay
I guess that's the question , the frequency of them showing up with qq-aa in this spot.

There is not much more hands that make sense. I can see adding in ATs, maybe 87s... As randoms tend to get sticky with suited cards more often than unsuited.
I have the Js blocker , so TJs is not possible , and underpairs... I never thought of that being possible , but when I think about it, villain could very well just be putting me on AK and shoving any non ak board, it does make some sense.

Matty

How much larger the 3 bet and why ?
Are you aware it went utg limp, villain 1 limp, short stack (villain 2) raised to $30 ($180), villan1 cold calls.

Everest
Yea in game that's what went on in my mind. And I had all day to think about it, well half of it I was thinking ... This short stack is really tanking this long here wtf lol.

I think if random villain does this with the range we are giving him, JJ is also in his range in this situation.

Trivial gii readless. We also got that 3 flush and 3 straight for a little bonus equity if behind.