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Old 03-12-2014, 05:42 PM   #26
Willyoman
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Re: JJ OOP vs. possible squeeze

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick View Post
Hero decides to call, with a plan to check shove most non-ace flops. Sadly, V1 tanks, but does not come along.
Pot $80
Flop Qd9d5c
Hero checks, still planning to check shove over a normal sized c-bet, but V2 overbets $100, leaving only $20 behind.

Hero?
Well, that's incredibly spastic. I'm happily getting it in.

I agree with Daniel that this doesn't change the plan. Never stop in the middle of a hoedown. In fact, if anything, it makes the plan more viable imo.

While you might flat AA pre, your likely hand range is face up and very narrow as decent middle strength pairs like 88-JJ, maybe as narrow as TT-JJ. BTW, I really don't care that we're face up in this situation; he can't really exploit us when we go to the flop with an SPR ~1 and we're planning to c/shove. If he tries to - and hopefully he's trying to now - we just continue with the plan.

So yes, we're continuing with the plan almost regardless of villain's actions, but I'll also say that it's very believe that villain would "value bet" QQ+ with a large over bet when he either has you crushed or you crush him (99). And you don't have to be a master hand reader to understand this dynamic. His "value" bet sizing here should be much closer to half pot or even less to either a) win your chips if you'll station off with a middling pair or b) induce a shove he can snap off.

One possible function of his large bet is to deny you fold equity if you had considered shoving. That's a strange thing to do with a very strong hand.

So I think he's often quite weak here, and like I'm saying, not only do we continue with the plan to check/shove, which certainly continues to be a good plan under the circumstances, but we do so with even more confidence.

Also, I hope V1 folded 55 and learned his lesson for future situations: you can't win if you don't play.
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Old 03-12-2014, 06:27 PM   #27
pokerodox
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Re: JJ OOP vs. possible squeeze

What Willy and Daniel said.
I think you have to call.
V could be deep thinker and level you by figuring out what Daniel and Willy said, and playing the opposite. V could have KK hoping you have JJ, TT, AQ and will call. C'est la vie. GII.
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Old 03-12-2014, 08:49 PM   #28
stinkubus
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Re: JJ OOP vs. possible squeeze

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Originally Posted by AcePlayerDeluxe View Post
Garick - Fold here... I sat next to him all night and watched how he was playing and what he was playing. He showed me just about every hand. He still has some outplay you in his blood, but not as much anymore. He was playing pretty snug last night. His 3bet range is fairly tight, IMO.

FWIW, I'm going to tell him to post here and make sure he tells you he had 56o. In a way it will be me meta outplaying you. I'm still in outplay Garick mode.
Mods colluding ITT?
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Old 03-12-2014, 09:19 PM   #29
Garick
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Re: JJ OOP vs. possible squeeze

1) V is not a mod

2) V would not show a hand to APD if APD were still active in the hand

3) (and most annoying) this game does not have a show one, show all rule. APD and I have argued in favor of such a rule, but were vociferously voted down. They love the game of "show V if he folds" and/or, brag to neighbor.
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:01 PM   #30
Lapidator
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Re: JJ OOP vs. possible squeeze

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Originally Posted by Garick View Post
3) (and most annoying) this game does not have a show one, show all rule. APD and I have argued in favor of such a rule, but were vociferously voted down. They love the game of "show V if he folds" and/or, brag to neighbor.
Must be terrible crushing the game and having to deal with their antics. Just don't pull a Sabr and get a 48hr timeout...
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