Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-03-2014, 12:30 AM   #1
gjpure
adept
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 955
JJ IP VS Aggro Kid

1/2 charity room game with a straddle. Villian is a kid a few seats to my right has been pretty active and already got stacked a few times with what he claims were coolers but didn't show. Hero has been playing tight and kinda card dead.

Villian raises to $12 in MP
Hero in cutoff calls with JJ
SB (also loose/crazy) calls.

Now I am wondering when an active player is raising like this and we think his range is pretty wide do we do better to flat in position or 3 bet?

I elected to flat but I can see agruments for both. I think he calls my 3 bets with a range I am still beating. But he folds out all the garbage. I also think he will continue with any flop that hit him in any way or that looks safe but I don't he is a huge bluffer.

Flop = 1055

V leads for $20

Now I don't know for sure, but he is probablly leads with any 10, maybe medium pairs, maybe AK, and of course any 5.

I decide to min raise here to 40 for value. Guys like this hate to fold and I think I am ahead. I am certainly not folding. I guess I could call and let him keep bluffing at it if he has worse. Im not really sure.

Someone please give me what and why the best line is both PF and Post flop.

I was totally lost in this hand.
gjpure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 12:32 AM   #2
iraisetoomuch
banned
 
iraisetoomuch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 33,655
Re: JJ IP VS Aggro Kid

Gnerally I'm 3betting here for fat value.
Because like you said, kida like this hate to fold.

Also, post flop tendencies are more important that pre flop tendencies when deciding if we should 3bet pre or not vs a laggy V imo.

Also stack sizes are critcal here.

Can't really offer mcuh more advice without staaaacks.
iraisetoomuch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 12:50 AM   #3
gjpure
adept
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 955
Re: JJ IP VS Aggro Kid

stacks are 100bb effective
gjpure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 12:50 AM   #4
jesse123
adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,078
Re: JJ IP VS Aggro Kid

I was going to say the same thing about post flop tendencies and stack sizes. Those are really the key factors.
jesse123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 12:53 AM   #5
slimshady1999
Pooh-Bah
 
slimshady1999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,231
Re: JJ IP VS Aggro Kid

I would prefer to flat pre and play post flop. There are just so many bad flops for JJ.

If he is really straight forward and isn't going to bluff much since you 3bet pre, then I'd 3bet pre
slimshady1999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 01:04 AM   #6
matzah_ball
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,556
Re: JJ IP VS Aggro Kid

3bet pre depends on his calling range. Just flatting against spews dude is fine.

But why minraise the flop? Is he calling with Tx and 77?
matzah_ball is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 02:36 AM   #7
Pot Odds RAC
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Degentleman and a Scholar
Posts: 4,363
Re: JJ IP VS Aggro Kid

I'm a bit of a tight nit, so I like the flat to let the Villian hang himself post flop. But a 3 bet with the plan to cbet most Flops from position would probably be a good line.

As played, I think that we have to raise the Flop. He is calling with most tens and overs. If we chase him and take down the small pot, fine. Our problem is what is our plan if he calls and we see an over on the Turn?
Pot Odds RAC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 03:30 AM   #8
Study Ace
journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 231
Re: JJ IP VS Aggro Kid

If you have a tight image im probably not 3-betting this pre, we are only getting called by overcards and hands looking to hit (pp's, sc's). However if you realize he calls 3-bets light or youre image becomes looser, im definitely 3-betting hands like KQ and JJ all day
Study Ace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 09:10 AM   #9
QuadJ
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,425
Re: JJ IP VS Aggro Kid

I would rather raise preflop. Two factors here. First, there are few run outs that JJ likes, so getting what FE we can preflop and on flop is good. Second, Hero isn't on button so flatting is risking additional people coming along.

On the flop, the minraise just gives him a chance to get away from total air while setting yourself up for an attack on the turn. It is a very obvious move and an aggressive opponent will exploit it. Either flat and plan to call down against most run outs or raise to $60.
QuadJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 09:25 AM   #10
DeathCabForTootie
Pooh-Bah
 
DeathCabForTootie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: SHR Tunaments
Posts: 5,722
Re: JJ IP VS Aggro Kid

At 100 BB Effective, I'm 3b to $40 and betting $50 on the flop to set up a turn shove. Guys like this don't like to fold and we're likely best.
DeathCabForTootie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 11:29 AM   #11
AintNoLimit
See my coaching listing
 
AintNoLimit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: las vegas
Posts: 6,402
Re: JJ IP VS Aggro Kid

If you do not know what he does with AK- then flat pre.

Flop------just call. Dont tell him what you have since anyone can play decent against a narrow range.

You rep KT+ when you minraise. He should play accordingly unless he is just throwing money away.
AintNoLimit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 02:53 PM   #12
mikko
veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,863
Re: JJ IP VS Aggro Kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by AintNoLimit View Post
If you do not know what he does with AK- then flat pre..
This is interesting to me. Can you elaborate. For example.

Let's say you believe he will 4bet/jam with AK. Would you raise?

I assume if he is going to flat AK. Then 3 betting is superior. Since we are getting control of hand and getting fat value from many other hands, And we can safely fold to his 4bets.

But if we believe he will 4bet AK. Are we realley that big of a dog. Assuming if he is willing to 4 bet with AK. My guess he will sometimes be 4 betting light (Almost non existent live).

FWIW

I am in 3 betting camp. For value vs active player.
mikko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 03:14 PM   #13
igotamustacheo
stranger
 
igotamustacheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 8
Re: JJ IP VS Aggro Kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikko View Post

I am in 3 betting camp. For value vs active player.
Same here.

Also, wouldn't people wanna raise here for isolation purposes? He did mention that SB is also crazy loose.
igotamustacheo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 03:17 PM   #14
Jmrode67
adept
 
Jmrode67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bensalem, PA
Posts: 858
Re: JJ IP VS Aggro Kid

100bbs effective and our notes on V ... 3b and be fine stacking off pre

As played - OTF ... min raising is really bad and what is your plan? - Min raising most likely screams strength to V or, alternatively, he interprets as weakness... either way we need a plan for what we are doing if he ships.

Probably best to flat flop. I mean we could try to raise gii with said V, but this texture is not very conducive to doing so and being ahead.

Plan is probably to call flop and call down on all favorable run outs.
Jmrode67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2014, 01:01 AM   #15
BackDoorFlush
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,171
Re: JJ IP VS Aggro Kid

Pre-flop can go either way, but I prefer 3 betting vs calling.

When I'm playing against tilted/spewy/aggro donks, who are capable of firing multiple barrels with air, I just station them. This seems like the perfect spot to station this V for all three streets. He bets, you call. He checks, you check. If he looks like he has totally given up, maybe toss in a small value bet on the river.
BackDoorFlush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2014, 10:27 PM   #16
tmacTheorySSAnne
old hand
 
tmacTheorySSAnne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,264
Re: JJ IP VS Aggro Kid

3b pre
when he leads, call all the way down
If we do, b b b
tmacTheorySSAnne is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive