JJ facing 3! - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Hi all,

1/2 NL at MD Live Casino last night. I am 30 y/o WG $110, V/short stack to my immediate left is $60. V has been pretty talkative, Irish MAWG, enjoying a beer. Has not been too active and has never 3!. I am very tight myself, rarely raising. I raise EP $12 with JJ, V 3-bets to $25. Folds to hero. Hero?

I've read never to call a 3! with less than KK at 1/2. But part of me just wanted to GII against this guy since I had him covered with the fourth best hand. What is the right decision?

Thanks,
DT

Quote

11-17-2017 , 11:21 PM

Garick

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Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,509

Fold. You need a good read of a loose V to 4-bet JJ, and he's not deep enough for you to call.

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11-18-2017 , 02:31 AM

WereBeer

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For me it depends on how long he's been playing tight and not 3betting. With the amount of info provided I'm just shipping for 30bb.

Also can you buy in for 100bb? If so start doing that and top up. All these posts when you are 50bb deep or whatever, you either need to change your strat and shortstack properly or bite the bullet and buy in for full.

Last, LOL @ never calling a 3bet without KK.

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11-18-2017 , 02:41 AM

browni3141

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,678

You have JJ and 30BB. If he’s got it who cares? This guys got to be a hardcore nit to get me to fold JJ for so little money.

It would help to know how long you’ve been at the table. If he has not 3-bet in 10 hours given many opportunities to do so I’d feel fine folding.

I’m still paying off, but is it suspicious that he didn’t ship?

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11-18-2017 , 02:43 AM

DumbosTrunk

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Quote:

Originally Posted by browni3141

We’ve been playing around 4 hours.

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11-18-2017 , 06:09 AM

Jarretman

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Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,937

Easy jam given stack sizes

Folding is ridiculous without a lot of history

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11-18-2017 , 08:18 AM

Chicagodude

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I agree. Folding is absurd. If he's as tight as you say call raise and hit flop. You have a 12% of a set and you may be able to double up. If he shoves on a low flop it's an easy laydown.

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11-18-2017 , 09:30 AM

MikeStarr

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk

Hi all,

1/2 NL at MD Live Casino last night. I am 30 y/o WG $110, V/short stack to my immediate left is $60. V has been pretty talkative, Irish MAWG, enjoying a beer. Has not been too active and has never 3!. I am very tight myself, rarely raising. I raise EP $12 with JJ, V 3-bets to $25. Folds to hero. Hero?

I've read never to call a 3! with less than KK at 1/2. But part of me just wanted to GII against this guy since I had him covered with the fourth best hand. What is the right decision?

Thanks,
DT

You either misunderstood what you read or should never read another word from that author.

However, in this spot I would bet 500BBs that he has AA/KK and I would fold. That tiny 3 bet from a nit is always AA/KK. Its one of the most face up moves Ive seen in a while.

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11-18-2017 , 10:25 AM

venice10

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Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 25,849

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

However, in this spot I would bet 500BBs that he has AA/KK and I would fold. That tiny 3 bet from a nit is always AA/KK. Its one of the most face up moves Ive seen in a while.

+1

It is great that you have 12% chance to hit a set, but you're going to only get 5:1 maximum payoff if you do it. He did only start with $60.

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11-18-2017 , 10:30 AM

#10

sai1b0ats

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you can call if he always does this with 99.

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11-18-2017 , 10:39 AM

#11

soxfan43

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Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 219

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicagodude

I agree. Folding is absurd. If he's as tight as you say call raise and hit flop. You have a 12% of a set and you may be able to double up. If he shoves on a low flop it's an easy laydown.

So we are flatting JJ and then check/folding on a 852r flop for $35 into $50 ish? I can't get behind a flat here.

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11-18-2017 , 10:46 AM

#12

sai1b0ats

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sai1b0ats

you can call if he always does this with 99.

I meant ship obv, forgot he wasn't allin yet

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11-18-2017 , 12:31 PM

#13

setintostraight

adept

Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 884

Are we really folding at these stack sizes? Easiest jam up to 50bb effective at least.

PS. If we've only seen villain for 1 hour or less, I wouldn't put any faith in "he's a nit" reads at all, thats just being results oriented after we lose a hand.

He could have been getting below average cards.

Last edited by setintostraight; 11-18-2017 at 12:36 PM.

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11-18-2017 , 02:26 PM

#14

Jarretman

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Why are you guys assuming this guy is a nit? He's a middle aged Irish guy having a beer with a 60 dollar stack! hero says he thinks he's inactive but they've only been playing for 4 hours. No where does the OP indicate a nit.

It's 30bb deep and we have Jack's and folding vs this description is absolutely ridiculous. Like i said earlier, you need some crazy history and decent sample to fold JJ for 30bb.

Sometimes I wonder about this forum...

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11-18-2017 , 02:39 PM

#15

Same_again

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 1,639

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarretman

What you just said articulates my thoughts precisely. This is an easy shove when not deep. I didn't see anything about the guy being a nit or very tight so would just be unlucky to run into a bigger hand imo

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11-18-2017 , 04:54 PM

#16

WereBeer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicagodude

I agree. Folding is absurd. If he's as tight as you say call raise and hit flop. You have a 12% of a set and you may be able to double up. If he shoves on a low flop it's an easy laydown.

Can't set mine with effective stack sizes.

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11-18-2017 , 11:07 PM

#17

twitcherroo

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Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 2,475

Range read is wrong, IMO. People 3 bet light with dumb crap all the time. 0.0% chance I'm folding here and am confident for me in my games this is +EV. Many folks on here have said it time and time again, don't assume V plays the way you play or the way you think V should play. I've watched TONS of people flat $25 pre out of a $60 stack w/ 44 or Q8o. No way he's a narrow as KK/AA here.

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11-19-2017 , 04:04 AM

#18

noshots00

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 134

he's always got AK or JJ+ and no matter what the flop is he's going to ship it so just fold. don't give action to short stacks who are tight.

ppl telling you to ship it are wrong.

ppl telling you to buy in for the full stack (300 at 1/2 at md live) are right

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11-19-2017 , 10:30 AM

#19

Garick

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Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,509

Quote:

Originally Posted by twitcherroo

Calling with junk /= raising with junk, and very definitely does not equal 3-betting with junk. Yes, people flat bad hands hoping for a miracle flop all the time. Few non-maniacs 3-bet with anything but super-premiums in LLSNL.

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11-19-2017 , 11:02 AM

#20

MikeStarr

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Results?

These threads mean nothing is 1/2 the people say fold and 1/2 say call or shove and then we never get results. If we get results often enough you can start to build a database in your head of these spots and how often the guy had a monster or not.

PS...If the guy shoved I would call. His tiny 3 bet is a bad sign for hero.

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11-19-2017 , 11:22 AM

#21

bwslim69

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Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 24,927

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

Prob true but I'm not folding JJ 30bb effective and frankly in game I doubt anyone in this thread is either. This is silly

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11-19-2017 , 12:41 PM

#22

MikeStarr

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bwslim69

Prob true but I'm not folding JJ 30bb effective and frankly in game I doubt anyone in this thread is either. This is silly

Whats silly is calling anyway when you just admitted that what I said about villains hand is probably true. Either you think villain probably has QQ+ but not often enough that folding JJ is correct? Or you are just too stubborn to fold to a short stack that makes this tiny 3 bet even though you know you are toast?

Personally Ive seen it often enough that Im folding JJ. Just yesterday at my 1/2 table there was a $13 open raise, a call and then a guy made it $24. He had AA. He wasnt short stacked which makes it even more of a horrible play but that's what these guys do. They are afraid you will fold if they 3 bet larger.

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11-19-2017 , 01:14 PM

#23

bwslim69

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

I don't really care what happened yesterday. Against a range of TT+, AK we have 44-45% equity. We need 38-39% (just assume he is all in for the sake of this discussion)

It's a middle aged guy drinking. I'm not folding and I'm certainly not calling. He has 60 in his stack. My educated guess is that he sucks at poker and is just having a good time. I suspect there is more spaz in his range that hasn't been accounted for

My math is in my head so I may be off a point or two

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11-19-2017 , 01:22 PM

#24

MikeStarr

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bwslim69

I don't really care what happened yesterday. Against a range of TT+, AK we have 44-45% equity. We need 38-39% (just assume he is all in for the sake of this discussion)

It's a middle aged guy drinking. I'm not folding and I'm certainly not calling. He has 60 in his stack. My educated guess is that he sucks at poker and is just having a good time. I suspect there is more spaz in his range that hasn't been accounted for

My math is in my head so I may be off a point or two

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Of course, but Im saying that's not his range when he min 3 bets. Im saying its AA/KK almost always. AK almost never. If you want to throw in some stupid hand one every 20 times, fine, but overall I think hero is crushed.