JJ in CO facing a good TAG and spewy BTN - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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JJ in CO facing a good TAG and spewy BTN

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12-14-2013 , 08:15 AM

a12

adept

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 825

1/2 FR. (9 Handed)

Hero is dealt J

in CO and is sitting on 185. A good young TAG player in late MP opens for 12/350. Hero tanks what to do and calls(?). BTN now (somewhat spewy player) makes it 40/220. TAG tanks and flats.

Hero?

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12-14-2013 , 08:24 AM

ImyoPusha

enthusiast

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 94

Interesting spot.. Depending on how strong I think spewy Btn is I'm either GII or folding. Flatting would just be set-mining with almost a 1/4 of your stack which is bad?

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12-14-2013 , 09:26 AM

Barbra Streisand

banned

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,741

This is never a fold.

Shove as played thoufh

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12-14-2013 , 09:33 AM

AbqDave

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,649

What do you guys think about this line?

- pre, 3b 40
- check behind on flop
- call (or bet) ~60 ott
- play poker on river

Obv trying to iso pre, pot control post. Should have psb left otr.

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12-14-2013 , 10:35 AM

BeakWetter

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,489

Shove. Expect to take it down often

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12-14-2013 , 10:43 AM

spikeraw22

The Situation

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 8,741

Only move now is to shove with lots of likely dead TAG money.

I prefer to just 3 bet myself. Btn may squeeze light but he probably won't cold 4 bet light.

One more reason not to get tricky with big hands preflop.

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12-14-2013 , 10:49 AM

amh1121

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 307

You induced a wide squeeze from a spewy button and then found out that the TAG probably didn't have a better hand. Now, shove and take all that money

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12-14-2013 , 01:09 PM

slimshady1999

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 4,313

You guys don't think TAG can flat here with QQ+? It really depends on what the TAG's flatting range is. If it is wide I would 4bet here. If it is only premium hands I would fold here. As a default I would assume the TAG needs a big hand to just flat here and I would fold here

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12-14-2013 , 01:10 PM

slimshady1999

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 4,313

I don't see the point of 3betting pre. You just push out all hands you crush.

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12-14-2013 , 01:12 PM

#10

spikeraw22

The Situation

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 8,741

Quote:

Originally Posted by slimshady1999

I don't see the point of 3betting pre. You just push out all hands you crush.

What's the point of 3 betting AA? Same thing.

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12-14-2013 , 01:17 PM

#11

slimshady1999

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 4,313

Quote:

Originally Posted by spikeraw22

What's the point of 3 betting AA? Same thing.

Well, if you 3bet pre with JJ and get TAG to only continue with QQ+, AK then obviously you are making a huge mistake since that range crushes you. You are basically allowing him to play perfect by folding all hands you crush and continuing with hands that crush you or have close to 50% equity. With AA, obviously you crush that range so flatting or 3betting AA is fine. In this spot flatting AA may be better to keep TAGs range wide and to allow button to spew

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12-14-2013 , 02:36 PM

#12

spikeraw22

The Situation

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 8,741

I agree with your statement.

My point is that we're raising for value. My assumption is that TAG will continue with a wider range than QQ+ and we're in position so bonus.

I also assume that spewy button isn't a maniac. Spewy players spew but not usually vs. a 3 bet. I'd expect him to cold call more than 4 bet.

It's the difference between value owning 1 pair hands for at least two streets and coolering/getting coolered by better. It's a bad play.

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12-14-2013 , 03:57 PM

#13

trucdouf

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 2,216

Fold because of your stack size.

This feels like a set mine for hero now given the play.

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12-14-2013 , 04:25 PM

#14

Mr_Doomed

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,629

Quote:

Originally Posted by slimshady1999

Any decent TAG isn't wanting to take QQ+ 3 way to the flop OOP so no I don't think so. As played shoving seems best IMO

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