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[3/3] 400bb deep - full house on the river vs overshove [3/3] 400bb deep - full house on the river vs overshove

12-21-2020 , 05:13 PM
Hi all

This is a hand I played recently:

430bb eff; full ring

PREFLOP
Vilain in LowJack opens to 4bb
Hero in CO calls KQcc
BB calls

Flop Pot:13bb KT2ss
BB checks
Vilain cbet 9bb
Hero calls
BB calls

Turn Pot:40bb KT2ssKx
BB checks
Vilain checks
Hero bets 28bb
BB folds
Vilain raises to 80bb
Hero tank call

River pot: 200bb ; KT2ssKx2x
Vilain jams for 312bb

Hero?

What should be hero s calling range here?? KT? any K? K2?
[3/3] 400bb deep - full house on the river vs overshove Quote
12-21-2020 , 05:29 PM
Ouch. Your calling range depends on V, but with the open, I doubt he has KT (although it's possible). Why no 3bet pre or on the flop? If V is so tight that you don't think KQ is good, don't play it pre.

It sucks if he shows up with KT (or 22, lol), but not sure you can ever fold.
[3/3] 400bb deep - full house on the river vs overshove Quote
12-21-2020 , 05:30 PM
Knowing the suits could make a difference. If KTs is impossible that helps quite a bit, since KTo is a very loose LJ open, as well as 22 which is only 1 combo.

3-bet preflop.
[3/3] 400bb deep - full house on the river vs overshove Quote
12-21-2020 , 05:51 PM
Preflop is 3 bet readless. Only if the villain was nitty would I consider a fold.
[3/3] 400bb deep - full house on the river vs overshove Quote
12-22-2020 , 03:18 AM
We need more detailed info on the villain to make a proper decision on what to do with this hand.

It depends heavily on what kind of villian we are up against, and what he is capable of doing really.

Some villains never shove here deep stacked without the super stones like top house or quads, and some bluff happy villains can be capable of bluffshoving river even after getting called on the turn.
[3/3] 400bb deep - full house on the river vs overshove Quote
12-22-2020 , 03:34 AM
Vilain is a low stake reg. Strategy is nut mining. capable of play but rarely see him pulling big triggers.

3bet happy everyday IP but decided to slow play once

He does have KTo and 22 in his late position openning range; he would open 33 EP to build pot preflop to get stack in when he hits set (low 3bet field preflop because 3bet cold call happy and fold to 3bet very low)
[3/3] 400bb deep - full house on the river vs overshove Quote
12-22-2020 , 03:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alsi
Vilain is a low stake reg. Strategy is nut mining. capable of play but rarely see him pulling big triggers.

3bet happy everyday IP but decided to slow play once

He does have KTo and 22 in his late position openning range; he would open 33 EP to build pot preflop to get stack in when he hits set (low 3bet field preflop because 3bet cold call happy and fold to 3bet very low)
If so i am weighted towards wanting to fold really, as we basically are calling hoping to chop and lose the max when he have K10 or 22. We are never winning here.
[3/3] 400bb deep - full house on the river vs overshove Quote
12-22-2020 , 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci
If so i am weighted towards wanting to fold really, as we basically are calling hoping to chop and lose the max when he have K10 or 22. We are never winning here.
Yes, it's sick, but calling to chop or lose is a bad option. Fold is probably best, but I don't know if I could do it. I don't think he's ever doing this w/o a K because I don't think he thinks anyone will fold a K.
[3/3] 400bb deep - full house on the river vs overshove Quote
12-22-2020 , 11:18 AM
I would 3 bet pre to 16 BB.

Flop looks good, as played.

I would go full pot ott, and I'm definitely calling the raise.

Snap call river; if villain has 22 or KT, nice hand. By the way, K2 is the same hand as Kx here.
[3/3] 400bb deep - full house on the river vs overshove Quote
12-22-2020 , 11:44 AM
preflop is a mixed strategy for me but that deep and my perceived image is high cards therefore I lack board coverage postflop once I 3bet.

Is there anyone that can run a 400 bb sim for me with pio or simplepostflop pls? I only got 16 ram i cant run it.
Preflop range for vilain should be close to a CO open range (not btn )

What are your thoughts on the following calculation?
if i consider the range for vilain as follow on the river:
AK 4 combos
KQ 3 combos
KJ 4 combos (unlikely turn play?)
K9s 1 combo (unlikely turn play?)

KT 3 combos
22 1 combo (unlikely turn play?

Hero chop 11 combos and lose to 4 combos
Hero needs to call 312 bb to win 100bbb
(200/2)

hero win 100bb 27% of time (4 combos) and lose 312 bb 73% of time (11 combos) : -11.24bb EV which I can get easily through 2 small pot thin value river with low variance


Pokersnowie suggest folding 90% of time and calling 10% at 0 EV; however we all know it s overfolding
[3/3] 400bb deep - full house on the river vs overshove Quote
12-22-2020 , 11:52 AM
I wouldn't play a mixed strategy from CO; from BTN I would, but CO I'm exclusively 3 betting
[3/3] 400bb deep - full house on the river vs overshove Quote
12-22-2020 , 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alsi
preflop is a mixed strategy for me but that deep and my perceived image is high cards therefore I lack board coverage postflop once I 3bet.

Is there anyone that can run a 400 bb sim for me with pio or simplepostflop pls? I only got 16 ram i cant run it.
Preflop range for vilain should be close to a CO open range (not btn )
If villain is opening a CO range from the LJ that makes me even more inclined to 3-bet. If you are worried about your range appearing capped on low boards mix in more suited connectors and lower pairs as 3-bets. When you smash on textures where you're perceived to be capped you can win a lot of money.

I don't believe in mixing vs. low stakes fish. IMO KQs just makes more money as a 3-bet so there's no reason to flat it. You should only mix if you believe the EVs of each action are equal, or if you're not sure.

I don't 3-bet or fold from CO on tables that rarely squeeze, but that's also an option.
[3/3] 400bb deep - full house on the river vs overshove Quote

      
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