V1: UTG+2 $1000. Fairly passive loose player. Likes to limp a lot.
V2: HJ $200. Loose passive, not very experienced. Limps a lot.
V3: CO $1000. Tight passive.
V4: BTN $2000. TAG, likes to battle against hero a lot. Will make moves in good spots.
V5: SB $400. Loose passive, limps a lot.
Hero: BB $3000. Young asian male, playing TAG, opening up more in late position. Running good tonight.
OTTH
UTG+1: folds
V1: raise to 10 (standard open at this game is 15)
V2: call
V3: 3! to 50
V4: cold call
V5: call
Hero: Jd Js call
V1: call
At this point, I'm putting V3 on QQ+, AQ+, and V4 on AJs+, 88-QQ. Everyone else could have anything. I elect to call and evaluate flop.
Pot: $300
Flop 10d 8d 3s
Checks around!
Turn is 2c
Now I feel like my hand could be good here, so I bet $100.
V1: calls.
Folds to BTN
V4: raises to $500
SB: folds
Hero: tank folds.
V1: folds
Best value hand I could put V4 on was a miracle set of 2s, otherwise seems like a bluff. If he was bluffing, he would have a tendency to bet all rivers.
Am I a nit for saying fold pre here? You had a passive player open UTG and another passive player 3!. On top of that, even if you call the $50 cold, you can still get reraised. Against the two ranges you listed you have 32% equity but there’s no guarantee that your call closes the action and if it doesn’t you’re behind 100% of the time and depending on the odds you are getting you’re either throwing your hand away or just set mining. Flame away at my nittyness i guess.
I honestly would not fold pre-flop if I completed the action but I understand that advice, I play 1/2 so it is a little different. That's a nightmare flop if you're up against AA or KK or QQ. I would have folded there too.
I'd like to add that V1 is highly unlikely to have QQ+ here with just a $10 open. I expected V1 and V2 to call/fold most of the time in this spot. So I felt a call would get me to a flop.
I frequently open $10 with AA or KK or even QQ in early or middle position for the specific reason that many players think it "highly unlikely to have QQ+ here."
When not to open $10? When the game is so nitty that it is going to be five ways to the flop for $10 each.
I don't mind flatting pre, but you're set mining 7 ways fairly deep. That being said in your shoes I almost certainly make it $200 pre flop. I call an AI from either short V's and fold to a 5b from any of the $1k V's.
I'm not used to playing in games this deep, but so long as we're fairly confident V1 ain't going to 4bet, I would also be fairly comfortable just setmining here which will undoubtedly be in a 6way pot. Even if we do get 4bet, it ain't the end of the world against some of these stacks as with them being so big we only actually end up losing 5%.
I'd also just check and most likely fold the flop if V3 bets.
I'm also betting the turn given this action. Might go closer to 1/2 PSB but whatever.
Definitely a weird play by V4 as this really only looks like 22 (would he slowplay this flop in this big a pot with anything else, seems to risky). Kinda gross as it is against the battler, and our bet is kinda weak looking which he could be playing back at. Gross spot honestly, but I probably take the conservative route and fold, although it might not be best here.
Folding pre-flop is crazy talk, in my opinion, as is 4-betting. We're 300-600 BB deep against two of the players in the hand. How is this not the clearest set-mine spot on earth? I'm completely OK with throwing away 13 BB if V1 or V2 decides to 4-bet when it gets back to them. I think we're giving them WAY too much credit if we're assuming this is an automatic 4-bet most of the time against a 3.3X open from EP.
Folding pre-flop is crazy talk, in my opinion, as is 4-betting. We're 300-600 BB deep against two of the players in the hand. How is this not the clearest set-mine spot on earth? I'm completely OK with throwing away 13 BB if V1 or V2 decides to 4-bet when it gets back to them. I think we're giving them WAY too much credit if we're assuming this is an automatic 4-bet most of the time against a 3.3X open from EP.
StackSeeker - I think JJ is too strong of a holding to only set mine with it here. I'd 4b with the intent of essentially leading any flop. Not going to go broke with it but also not just set mining.
StackSeeker - I think JJ is too strong of a holding to only set mine with it here. I'd 4b with the intent of essentially leading any flop. Not going to go broke with it but also not just set mining.
Generally, I agree with JJ being too strong to set-mine. I just don't agree when we're looking at going six ways with this pre-flop action from two passive players. With that said, I don't think it's reasonable to simultaneously be discussing straight up folding the BB to this action while also being willing to consider a 4-bet OOP.
This is a spot where we have no reason to force the issue, IMO.
4bettig pre is suicidal. with a tight player 3betting? what?
calling pre is fine with a setmining goal. JJ also has SDV, just in case. Nothing wrong with throwing it away either (we would if stacks were shallow heads up vs a tight guy 3betting).
