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JJ all in preflop decision

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06-19-2014 , 06:27 PM

paratrooper99

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,051

1/2 NLHE Horseshoe Cincinnati

Hero - 35 TAG
Villain 1 - 30ish unkown. Just came to table with $150.
Villain 2 - 40ish Fish. Calls everything preflop and is super sticky with any pair.

Straddle ($5 UTG)
Villain 1 is in EP and raises to $18
Hero is in SB and raises to $45 with JcJs.
Villain 2 calls $45
Folded to Villain 1 who goes all in for $105 more.

Pot total is $270 and Villain 2 has another $100 if he calls

HERO????????

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06-19-2014 , 06:38 PM

javale mc g

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 246

shoves

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06-19-2014 , 06:50 PM

spikeraw22

The Situation

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 8,741

total unknown so mostly unknown range. With dead money probably a call.

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06-19-2014 , 07:12 PM

Axel Foley

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,493

What is our starting stack and what is V2's starting stack?

We're looking to call $105 to win at least $240, so 2.4:1 on our money, need to have 29.4% equity.

As far as ranges:

- If he's as wide as TT+, AQ+, we're at 46.8% equity (this assumes HU against V1; throwing in V2 will change things a bit)
- If he's TT+, AK, we're at 43.2%
- If he's JJ+, AK, we go down to 36.7%
- If he was tight enough to only be JJ+, we're at 20%

I really don't think we have enough information to rule out AK from his range, so I overshove to charge V2 extra money to stick around.

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06-19-2014 , 09:58 PM

paratrooper99

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,051

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Foley

What is our starting stack and what is V2's starting stack?
.

Each Villain started the hand with $150 and Hero had $300.

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06-19-2014 , 11:21 PM

dgiharris

All Hail His Modness

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 12,292

basically, if we call other V will call and both of them will be all-in...

It's rare for an early position raiser to raise and the 4-bet shove with something that JJ does well against.

The absolute BOTTOM of his range is AK. So we are looking at QQ+, AK with 75% of the time being QQ+

I'm fine folding here.

You could almost flip a coin whether to call or fold but I like a fold since this is going to be QQ+ 75% of the time imo. So meh, enjoy my $45 bucks and I'll get it back later.

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06-20-2014 , 12:40 AM

feel wrath

The Situation

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 29,863

In a vacuum I'm folding there pretty happily but the wild card is stack sizes. You've 3 bet with 1/3 of eff stacks and you shouldn't be doing that if you're not getting it in.

Given I don't like calling an all in with JJ I think the 3 bet is a mistake.

I probably fold here anyway and reflect on my 3 betting mistake, unless I think villain is doing this with AK but unknown villains at 1/2 rarely do IMO

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06-20-2014 , 06:46 AM

paratrooper99

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,051

Quote:

Originally Posted by feel wrath

I appreciate the comment. Would a smaller 3bet be better than just calling in SB with JJ?

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06-20-2014 , 07:06 AM

Jules22

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,156

Against an unknown and a calling station a stuff seems in order

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06-20-2014 , 07:12 AM

#10

paratrooper99

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,051

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgiharris

Agreed. The pot was just so big. I have seen some ideas about not 3 betting but I was thinking maybe a smaller 3bet vs a smaller stack. Somewhat of a tournament strategy but might be applicable considering smaller stacks in cash games.

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06-20-2014 , 07:17 AM

#11

Jules22

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,156

Against an unknown and a "fish" I'm not folding a pair of jacks. FWIW

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06-20-2014 , 09:53 AM

#12

iraisetoomuch

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 37,493

Does anyone else find that 4bet all in ranges are wider than 4bet when not all in? Esp when on a shorter stack. I just seems they can tool out so much more often for 75bb or less.

We should give the guy credit for a decent hand, but most non nitty villains will raise AK here and will def jam given the action because OMG I haz AK!

I'm not folding here.

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06-20-2014 , 10:11 AM

#13

javale mc g

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 246

Quote:

Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch

straddle too, we are speaking of 30bb eff. i´m not 3betting JJ with 30bb eff to fold to a shove, and i want to iso his AI and maybe possibly also get a loose call from fishy villain if we jam.
i think jamming is our only option here, esp readless.

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