Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-09-2019, 01:35 AM   #51
StacknLikeCordWood
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 88
Re: JJ 3bet from BB

Quote:
Originally Posted by zica View Post
Yes.



For an unknown to play tight for an hour means to me that he's not some maniac but it is true that maybe he never played before which is pretty much an anomaly. To include AK in his range we would have to theorize that he is never ever pfr'ing(imo) which is also an anomaly. I don't see any value in analyzing a hand which is an anomaly. If villain has 69o is the hand really worth discussing.



In my post #3 in this thread I mention some other hand but I see the most natural hands for him to have QQ+(overweighting AA then KK) thinking about limp 3betting but when the 3 bet comes in he thinks a 4 bet is too transparent and too easy to fold to so he risks seeing a flop.



If hero has 3bet twice in the last hour I am happy to widen villains range.



How often do you see young asian not open AKs first fm co? And then not shove 4bet facing this action but take the worst option and call 25bb's then flop flush draw and still not get it in, or back door.... it's just literally incredible imo.
Good points. Thanks for your input.
StacknLikeCordWood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 01:48 AM   #52
zica
grinder
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 604
Re: JJ 3bet from BB

Quote:
Originally Posted by StacknLikeCordWood View Post
Good points. Thanks for your input.
I edited my post after you quoted it...

"I didn't read your other post about passive player pool but will now. "

That changes things some but I'll leave it alone.
zica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 01:53 AM   #53
StacknLikeCordWood
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 88
Re: JJ 3bet from BB

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
It's rather moot whether he does or not (our bet is simply to prevent a mistake of letting him get there with worse for free), but it's still possible he calls it off with TT (overpair + gutshot) or flush draw (which is often overs + flush draw).



Yes, we often run into better (nice hand sir), but there's nothing much else we should be doing at this point (plus we can suck out on some hands).



Everyone is playing this pot postflop as if we flatted the raise preflop. But we didn't, for better or worse we 3bet, and now postflop should be a trivial large bet / ship the rest, imo.



GcluelessNLnoobG
This sums up a lot of what I was thinking in the moment. But like I mentioned in OP, I was ranging villain at the time on something like TT-QQ, AK. Some of the replies have made me consider now that this range could be off.


Results:

Hero shoves turn (thinking we're only slightly behind TT-QQ due to the extra outs for TT, and we want to charge the max now if villain has AKhh or AKdd). Villain tanks before calling with QQ.
StacknLikeCordWood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 02:10 AM   #54
zica
grinder
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 604
Re: JJ 3bet from BB

Quote:
Originally Posted by StacknLikeCordWood View Post
This sums up a lot of what I was thinking in the moment. But like I mentioned in OP, I was ranging villain at the time on something like TT-QQ, AK. Some of the replies have made me consider now that this range could be off.


Results:

Hero shoves turn (thinking we're only slightly behind TT-QQ due to the extra outs for TT, and we want to charge the max now if villain has AKhh or AKdd). Villain tanks before calling with QQ.
If this is a reflection of a fair bit of the action at your room you should significantly undervalue one pair hands that aren't pA's, pK's and tptk holding AK. Also, you should bet unusually large post with monsters as these guys holding big pp's may not be getting away on uc boards.

edit:
You could also dramatically reduce your pfr'ing of drawy type hands you may be using to balance your range.

2nd edit:
and limp wider as you're not facing a pfr as often.

Last edited by zica; 02-09-2019 at 02:32 AM.
zica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 02:23 AM   #55
ChrisV
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ChrisV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 39,823
Re: JJ 3bet from BB

If it is TT-QQ, AKdd, AKhh then it's a slam dunk GII, if he just has TT+, AKdd, AKhh it's thinner but still a GII. (Edit: Some risk he folds TT, which would be painful, but I'd still shove if I knew for a fact he had either of the above ranges).

I think your range is pretty narrow to be putting him on without more information. I know he's limped and folded a couple times, but you've seen what, like 30 hands probably? He could just not have been dealt anything good. I would still expect most players fitting that description to be open raising TT-QQ, AK there. Clearly there's something incongruous going on here - like either he limped a hand he should have raised, or he cold-called the 4bet with an unreasonable hand. Maybe you're right that it's usually the first option given what you've seen of this player. In my experience it's frequently the second one.
ChrisV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 02:50 AM   #56
wait
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,116
Re: JJ 3bet from BB

Check flop buds
wait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 04:47 AM   #57
StacknLikeCordWood
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 88
Re: JJ 3bet from BB

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV View Post
If it is TT-QQ, AKdd, AKhh then it's a slam dunk GII, if he just has TT+, AKdd, AKhh it's thinner but still a GII. (Edit: Some risk he folds TT, which would be painful, but I'd still shove if I knew for a fact he had either of the above ranges).

I think your range is pretty narrow to be putting him on without more information. I know he's limped and folded a couple times, but you've seen what, like 30 hands probably? He could just not have been dealt anything good. I would still expect most players fitting that description to be open raising TT-QQ, AK there. Clearly there's something incongruous going on here - like either he limped a hand he should have raised, or he cold-called the 4bet with an unreasonable hand. Maybe you're right that it's usually the first option given what you've seen of this player. In my experience it's frequently the second one.
Thanks for your input.

This is probably due to a difference in player pools, but in my experience it's much more likely to be the first (player has a strong hand they should have raised). But my player pool tends to be very passive.
StacknLikeCordWood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 09:44 AM   #58
23LBJ23
journeyman
 
23LBJ23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 346
Re: JJ 3bet from BB

Wow, V literally takes the opposite of the +EV line at every point in this hand
23LBJ23 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online