Table:
1/3, Sunday Afternoon, 12:30.

V: I've played with him a lot this weekend. I can't really peg him, but he seems pretty terrible. Likes to soul read all of his villains, and put them on one specific hand. Normally something just good enough to beat him if he's folding, and just bad enough to call. However, he certainly is thinking in every hand. I think his logic is just faulty at pretty much all times. Calls 3bets too wide OOP, had made some weird 4bets against me pre when trying to play back at me (4bet me OOP with 85s in an earlier session and called off post for 100bb with a pair + gs). I 3bet him with a trach hand once and he thinks that I'm always 3betting light as a result. I think he's studies some, but not played enough, and incorrectly applies what he's 'learned'. $700

Hero: Viewed as super laggy, spewy, but somewhat competent. Covers.

Hand:

V opens limps from the CO (lol wtf?)
Hero raises the button to $13 with J9
Blinds fold
V raises to $38
Hero?

I think he has JJ+ 50% of the time, AJ+, 35% of the time, and what ever else 15% of the time. I don't put it past him to lp/raise with ATC if he is feeling frisky. He generally plays pretty straight foward post flop, and I expect im to cBet a healthy portion of the time on good textured boards.

Can we peel here deep and IP?

Of course you can, as you should. In this instance, you should call the l/r ip with a good implied odds hand. I have a feeling this is a pahwm. You should have just went to the flop lol.

yes

Yes, peel... I'd guess KK+ tho.


Flop?


And please don't tell me you 4b... :banghead:

I'm terrible at this game.

Not that terrible though...

Alarm bells are obviously going off in my head when he open limps in LP, so I overlimp and spoil his plan.

As played, we'll have position, possibly against a face upish hand, with a spewy image against a non-believer, and have implied odds of 28+. I call.

GcluelessNLnoobG

i say call.

like already said, JJ+ more often than not. because of your description and history with one another, its possible he is trying to play KQs, KJs, QJs, type hands. He knows in EP those are not raise worthy hands, but he'd like to see a flop. then you come along and raise. if you are viewed as laggy, he is probably thinks this is an attempt to steal and "punish" limpers, position raise i guess. and he wants to fight back to take down the pot right here.

edit: forgot to mention the his raise was just shy 3x yours. think he might raise more with JJ+, also depends on the table. seems weird to throw 38 exact, instead of just 40. like he is trying to lose the min or something.

LOL +1

FWIW, I'd also call IP with a decent IO hand like this when we're deep enough.

Not true in my experience.

Fish open limp from late position all the time... and their range is wider and wider and wider.

Ya, obviously it depends who's doing the open limping in LP. OP's "wtf?" comment seems to suggest he finds this a very odd play from Villain, so I'm basing it on that.

Gotherwise,obviouslyI'monboardwiththeraiseG

Lol cmon. Me thinks you are trolling me now

Villain is definition of button clicker. Let's take a flop.

Hero calls

Flop ($75) J:9:3:

V checks
Hero bets $60
V ck/raises to $140

I'm open to opinions on my flop sizing, but I think he either had a hand to continue or he doesn't, and sizing doesnt really matter, if anything, I think I should have bet a bit bigger.

Im pretty willing to stack off here, if he has a set, congratulation, he gets paid.

Im just not sure if I should 3b, or flat and let him barrel into me on the turn. And if I do 3b, sizing?

Since he's seen you three bet light and villain is prone to misinterpreting poker concepts, I'm inclined to min-raise to $280. It may induce a shove which we welcome. Stacks will be awkward if you flat here if you are looking to GII OTT. Unless my math is wrong the pot will be at $350 and if we flat villain will have over $500 left for two streets.

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I agree with Cutie for Tootie. This guy is reading the playbook for button clicking. His line is spewtastic. Let's hope he has AA and min it back

Weird raise amount. Putting him on the same range as before. Agree with deathcab here, but why not just shove now?

Agreed.

I'm less inclined to think he has anything better than a A10+ with the limp/r pre. In my experience, that's someone without a big hand trying to "see where they're at" type of raise. They expect AA/KK will 4b back so they can get away. When you don't, they feel good on most any flop. When I've seen people limp/r pre, they've usually shoved if they have AA/KK.

Flat and ship turn. Reraising flop looks super strong IMO.

I'm not advocating anything yet, but we are only flatting if we think that he will barrel the turn imo.
And if that's the case, stacks are spectacular to get them in ott.

Pot will have $350, if he bets $150 again on the turn (but if he bets he likely bets $200+), we call the $150 leaving a $350 shove into $650, leaving him calling $350 into $1,000. That's a great price to him and he can level him self into calling with a huge range of hands.

If he makes it $200, it''ll be $300 for him to call into $1,050. And it only gets better the bigger he bets the turn.

Maybe at a 75bb or 100bb stack game where people make it 5 - 8 bb, and get 1 - 2 callers, but when you are heads up and 200bb deep, this should and does happen pretty much never. When the game gets deep things get different.

Must 3b

I like flatting for a couple of reasons...

1) Maintain position and you can respond if the board pairs on the bottom...
(I think he is heavily weighted to overpairs here)
2) Villains like this put of position are very spew heavy, meaning he might even continue to bet the turn without a pair because its the only button he thinks will get him the money.

3) we can always get the money in(as much as we want) on future streets with more control.

The only thing that makes me hesitate is the chance he gets away from qq or kk if an ace comes. Im not worried much about straight scare cards but a suited 10 might kill our action as well. So theres like 10-12 or so action killer cards we want to fade on the turn.

You're about 49-1 to flop two-pair. So you need to make 25 * 48 when you do or 1200 of EV. If the Villain has say pocket queens you're a 71-29 favorite on the flop; you have a 42% edge. That means you need to get a 1200/.42 or 2,857 dollar bet called on the flop if your goal is to breakeven.

I know that if you doubled up on this hand it "feels" like you found a profitable poker strategy -- calling pre-flop with two undercards hoping to get really really really lucky (49-1) lucky.

I guess my question is by "peel" do you mean "hope to get a fortunate flop"? If that's your question than the answer is very rarely is anyone deep enough.

The math of poker explains why nobody complains when people call their raises lightly when they have a strong hand. It's profitable for them when you do.

But we are in position and we don't necessarily have to flop 2 pair, or any pair for that matter

This hand is awesome.

I say yes to flatting pre-flop.

Call the flop raise and let him spaz on the turn with his entire range.

This is how you use position. If he doesn't spaz, you still get a chance to bet yourself (and maybe he c/shoves then).

If you 3-bet the flop, you do risk getting a fold. And you really don't need to 3-bet to get in stacks. And scare cards don't scare me.