Rake is 1/hand, no SB.

3/5, 4 handed play, I am definitely performing the best at the table ainec. all V's stuck 1k+, and they're sticking around for that reason. I think at this point, I'm up 60 + BB, after a few minor rebuys. (Bought in for 500, lost 175~, rebought to 500 and at 740~).

I don't know my image for the night. Sorry :/ I couldn't even guess. I've been talkative and maybe a bit annoying, asking what people's professions are & their opinions on things, etc.

V1: 1100 (When the table was full ring, he was at 2100). I think he's profiting for the night, but steaming from two big pots that halved his stack. Playing any two cards by limping, limps SB (when not even committed), calls raises OOP and has been checking down.

V2: 500 (He's rebought 3x). Another player left the table with about 4500 in profit earlier, so I think they've all donated a bit to him. I haven't seen much of his play. He's been playing fairly tightly when full table, went nuts with AQ and lost a stack then, and I think he lost another stack with an underfull, but it may have been trips :/ I had just come back from a bathroom break. Definitely 3oak 8s+.

V3: 700~ Crazy player. Raises every hand. Gets called by V1 almost every time. V2 hasn't called him too much and has gotten heckled for it. Gets decent action from me, and it's been relatively aggressive (3betting light, donk betting flops vs me).

Hand:

J8ss

V1 limps 5 UTG, V2 limps, and V3 raises to 20 in the SB. Hero flats 20, and V1 and V2 come along.

Flop 777. Checks around. Pot 79.

Turn 8. V3 leads for 55. Hero?

so you are in the BB daft punk? I am assuming you called pre flop because you figured the other villains were coming along - it's still very close to a call based on V3's description and a fold leaning much closer to a fold imo.

You still have 4 people in the hand on the turn, any higher PP or 7 is also going to float till the river probably. Not to mention V3 is also betting into 3 other players. I think if it was heads up it would be a different story tho. Also the fact that a "crazy aggressive player" checked the flop could be sneaky on his part too as you know there are a lot of 7's in his range.

Preflop is thin and I would mostly fold. Despite being fairly sure V1 and V2 are going to flat J8s just isn't that strong of a hand and plays badly against maniacs because your rarely going to flop a good pair or a good draw.

As played, where you are on turn is guess work but I would fold. Not so much because I'm worried about V3 but because somebody after hero can easily turn up with a better hand they won't give up. Too many cases where TT/99 are just going to call down, add in the various ways somebody could have 7X and the fold is fairly easy. The alternative is throwing in a min raise to 110. If you think that gets a lot of fold from villains without the 7 it could be a workable way of finding out where you are in the hand because V3 should have a lot of garbage in this situation.

You are out of position and not deep enough to play J8s here imo. Fold pre and save money.

V is most active player at table and you are only 4 handed. You have to know his cbet %. If he cbets very high percentage of time he is likely bluffing a lot to take down small pots. That would make me nervous when he checks and then comes out swinging on the turn.

If he doesn't usually cbet with a high frequency, I'd call turn and re-evaluate river (mostly based on whether other people in the hand come along).

^^^^^ This.

I'm calling and re-evaluating turn, but I'm not so nervous about the fact that the V in question didn't c-bet.

But yeah, fold pre. J8 even 4-handed is garbaggio.

We can't win every hand against maniacs or fish.

Even if it's "the best game we ever watched" we still should choose position and cards carefully when we get into the action.

Pre is meh.

As played it's a snap call, I really have no idea what everyone else in this thread is talking about.

J8 sooted is a pretty damn good hand 4 handed. Villain is raising every hand and we have position vs him. It's only $15 to us and we are $700 effective. I'm not folding this pre if I think it's unlikely that other players will 3-bet. If the other 2 players folded and took their money out of the pot then I'm still calling this heads up like 100% of the time.

I would limp J8s pre, but would not call a raise with it OOP even short handed. So yeah, fold pre.

As played, I check/call down just to keep V's range wide. As long as he doesn't do anything crazy, standard play is to just c/c down...

I agree with this. Based on player descriptions and action in the hand so far, there is very little chance of an overpair being held by any villain so we're only worried about a 7. V3 could be stabbing with anything.

3bet or fold pre, as played call turn, see what happens from there. Fold to any raise ott, if someone calls behind I would not call another bet/heads up I'd likely call a reasonable bet or check behind

I'm not going to argue J8 Pre. I am very certain that it is a profitable call on this table. I have better post flop play than the people who are all stuck and have been getting credit when bluffing / cbetting air.

This is a spot for me because of the flop. 777. Anyone left to act behind me handcuffs me into a pot of at least 180. I have to fold to any raise if I call 55 and someone behind squeezes, no? two left to act? and if SB is betting with the goods, me calling brings in another player with odds to draw, it just keeps me losing, no?

Fold pre, as played call down

If V is raising that often a better adjustment is to start 3betting him rather than calling light

It should be noted that live players are notoriously terrible short handed. Even otherwise good players, IMO. Short handed play is actually favorable to the fish that plays too many hands because they are suddenly playing about the right amount of hands while grinder types are often playing far too few.

We can pick spots to 3-bet and spots to call him. Given our position a 3-bet will likely give us ultimate last position which is probably the strongest case for 3-betting in this spot. That being said we have position on this maniac 3 out of 4 hands. I'll take position over initiative all day. Eventually he will make a mistake and we can capitalize.