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J7s line check multi way J7s line check multi way

10-28-2013 , 10:28 PM
Table: 8:15 Monday evening. 1/2

Hero: If anyone was paying attention I would have looked super nitty. I didn't play hand for almost 2 hours as I was super card dead and in bad position when people would raise and I had playable cards. After that I picked up a bunch of hands in the 45 minutes after that picked up almost $300 in chips in that time, and now I'm sitting on $650 or so. So I might have a more agro image now. (Covers)

V1: He was playing somewhat solid earlier. Made some good bet folds on the turn and river when he was beat. He was at $450 about 2 hour earlier in the day, and now he's down to $75 or so. He's shipped 2 times pre flop over $12 raise and call, and showed K9 and AT for $60 each time. He might be tilting a little bit, but it's hard to tell. ($67)

V2: Calls a LOT pre flop. I haven't seen him fold a hand pre flop in an unraised pot. Raises to $7 or $8 with all pocket pairs TT+. Isn't a huge fan of folding post flop, and is certainly capable of bluff raising the river as seen in a previous hand. Overall I'd have to describe him as lagish, with stationy tendencies. ($225)

Pre:
V1 straddles UTG
1 call
V2 calls
SB completes
Hero completes in the BB with J7
V1 checks his option on the straddle

I expect V1 to raise this straddle with AQ+ TT+. He's straddled at least 7 times before, and he hasn't raised a single one of them so far. So I'm essentially closing the action.

Flop ($20): J53
SB leads out for $16
Hero calls
V1 shoves for $63 total
1 fold
V2 thinks for a few seconds, then asks how much it is, then tanks for another 15-30 seconds, then calls.
SB folds
Hero shoves ($215 effective)
J7s line check multi way Quote
10-28-2013 , 11:05 PM
raise flop when sb raises. This Helps you by making v1 not shove that many hands.. and if he does shove v2 can fold more easily being worried of your 2-bet.

as played calling the 63 and check folding to big bet if turn bricks. honestly not even sure if we should be calling. But given the stationary description of v2 i think calling the flop is the right play.
J7s line check multi way Quote
10-29-2013 , 01:34 AM
Fold pre.

OTF I just call both times. Shoving either 1) gets worse fd's or a worse J to fold 2) gets much better to call (as much better as possible, he can't have a better J and a better fd).

But I don't know how right I am lol. Better fd's will call ai and we're ahead. I don't know if a JT will call the whole way if another diamond hits.

Folding pre is all I'm 100% on.
J7s line check multi way Quote
10-29-2013 , 09:01 AM
This really isn't worth completing in the BB. Tempting because of pot odds with a straddler who doesn't raise his straddle much, but the short stacked V1 is a good reason not to get into hand.

The flop is about as good as you could hope and you should raise the first bet to limit the competition. There is a chance you can get a slightly better jack or slightly better flush draw to fold and your hand is much better heads up. If you get all in here multiway there is too high a chance your facing a better jack and a better flush draw, leaving you with almost no equity.

As played, I think the shove on the end is right. Your priced in at that point and because V1 and V2 could have lower flush draws here, you can't really flat and fold later no matter what hits. Better to get V2 in before the flush hits, because if he isn't on a flush draw he might fold after one hits.
J7s line check multi way Quote
10-29-2013 , 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ
The flop is about as good as you could hope and you should raise the first bet to limit the competition. There is a chance you can get a slightly better jack or slightly better flush draw to fold and your hand is much better heads up. If you get all in here multiway there is too high a chance your facing a better jack and a better flush draw, leaving you with almost no equity.

As played, I think the shove on the end is right. Your priced in at that point and because V1 and V2 could have lower flush draws here, you can't really flat and fold later no matter what hits. Better to get V2 in before the flush hits, because if he isn't on a flush draw he might fold after one hits.
So you're plan ideally would be to raise/fold?

But given that we called first time around, shove when it gets back to us?
J7s line check multi way Quote
10-30-2013 , 10:54 AM
Yes, shove when it gets back around to you. It isn't a happy shove but I think it's the highest equity. If hero needs to hit the flush to win then we want V2 in now and shoving might get V2 to fold a weak jack that is ahead of hero. If hero flats what is hero going to do on turn if the flush does come in? If hero shoves V2 folds hands we beat, if hero checks and V2 shoves can hero fold? Hero ends up in a situation where hero is unlikely to make any money but can lose money to better hands.

Raising the first time gives hero a better chance because I don't think V2 is likely to fold when we call/shove. Hero's hand looks like a flush draw played that way and the only thing V2 is likely to fold is a bad flush draw. If hero raises the first time and V2 then shoves over top, I think folding is probably correct.

Either way it is a bit of a dicey judgement call, but that is what playing weak JX hands gives you when it hits. Pretty much no matter what the flop is, there is always a decent chance that villain has flopped better or is drawing to beat you.
J7s line check multi way Quote
10-30-2013 , 11:19 AM
Fold pre.

Raise enough after the SB leads to put the shorty all-in. We're never folding if he elects to shove himself and we take initiative in the hand. We pretty much have flopped perfect and I see no reason to slowplay, there are going to be a lot of turns that either kill our action or slow us down.

As played the shove is good, V2 might even call with 9d8d given his spewy nature. Even if his range is entirely AJ and Adxd we're at a .1% equity disadvantage and there's a lot of dead money in the pot.
J7s line check multi way Quote
10-30-2013 , 11:40 AM
The one thing you know is that you don't want this to be a multi-way pot. You hit the type of flop you wanted with this hand...now narrow the field. Like raising the original $16 bet to $70. As played though, you still have some fold equity if you shove...whereas, you're still OOP against a player who is willing to bluff in position if you check. Don't like the spot but another reason for staying away from trap hands when OOP.
J7s line check multi way Quote

      
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