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Old 12-02-2013, 11:14 AM   #1
KingThor
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Isolating nitfish - 2/5

I'm in mid-position. Effective stacks are 400. Villain #1 Nitfish asian limps UTG. He is the most faceup player I have ever seen but the game is so good he is still winning.

I coolered him earlier when I flatted his early position raise with KK and flopped too set to stack his AA. In another hand he check called me to the river on a limped pot with Qd10d on a Qs9d3d board!!!!!

Villain #2 is an older korean I played a pot with earlier. He raised UTG to $20, fish called in the BB and I called cuz I wanted to play with the fish with Qh6h. Flop came Ah4s3h. He bet $40, fish called I called. Turn is a Kh.
Sb checks I check V#2 makes it $100, fish calls, I jam with the nuts.
Both players call.
V#2 had 33 for bottom set, fish had KK!!!!! for 2nd set. River is a 4h and I lose a $1500 pot.

Just wanted to give you the history.
Effective stacks $400.
So V#1 limps I have A9o in middle position. I have a good image and make it $25 to isolate. V#2 is on my left and flats. Everyone else folds.

Flop comes Jd9d9c. V#1 checks I bet $35 V#2 flats, V#1 makes it $100.

I now know V#1 has either 910 or 98. He literally plays no other hands like this. I have $346 back.

What do you do?
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:24 AM   #2
TNTravis
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I flat and allow him to bet turn, and jam over on the turn when he should be too committed to fold. Is J9 not ever in his range?
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:28 AM   #3
KingThor
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J9 is never in his range.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:39 AM   #4
donkatruck
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Re: Isolating nitfish - 2/5

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingThor View Post
J9 is never in his range.
If you can range somebody that they have 89 or 9T but never ever J9, I don't think you have to worry about anything. It should be like playing with marked cards.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:44 AM   #5
donkatruck
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Re: Isolating nitfish - 2/5

Snark aside, if we flat, we give V2 the right immediate odds to call any kind of straight/flush or combo draw.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:46 AM   #6
Ineeda2
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Re: Isolating nitfish - 2/5

How is it never in his range? Have you played with him enough yo know that? What a bout JJ? I'm having a hard time seeing a passive nit fish raise here with 9T or 89. You said he's the most face up player you have ever seen. If that's the case I would want a fold Here. Add the fact that vill2 is behind us and it seems more likely that we're beat
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:51 AM   #7
playertee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingThor View Post
J9 is never in his range.
Well the guys plays QT, sooooo....

Sent from my SCH-I545 using 2+2 Forums
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:58 AM   #8
KingThor
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Yes, he played Qd10d but it was a limped pot and he was in the BB. Never is a bad word, I would find it extremely unlikely.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:59 AM   #9
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Re: Isolating nitfish - 2/5

Ciib

Last edited by jambre; 12-02-2013 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 12-02-2013, 12:12 PM   #10
lugubrious
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Re: Isolating nitfish - 2/5

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Ciib
I actually like this.

Sets up easy turn jam, he might shove flop himself putting you on some weird combo or spaz overpair.
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Old 12-02-2013, 01:31 PM   #11
KingThor
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Not sure what CIIB means?
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Old 12-02-2013, 02:26 PM   #12
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Re: Isolating nitfish - 2/5

Click it back, means to min-raise. Meant to be one 'i'.

Tbh this hand hasn't got that much to it vs V1 as he's stacking off no matter what raise size, so it doesn't really matter too much. Flatting is bad because there are a fair few action killers and v2 can be drawing to a better hand.

Clicking it back is probs best because V2 might make the mistake of flatting a draw with a villain likely to shove behind him.
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Old 12-02-2013, 02:37 PM   #13
Hungry.Hippo
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Re: Isolating nitfish - 2/5

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingThor View Post
I'm in mid-position. Effective stacks are 400. Villain #1 Nitfish asian limps UTG. He is the most faceup player I have ever seen but the game is so good he is still winning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingThor View Post
Villain #2 is an older korean I played a pot with earlier. He raised UTG to $20, fish called in the BB and I called cuz I wanted to play with the fish with Qh6h.
Looks like YOU are the fish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingThor View Post
Effective stacks $400.
So V#1 limps I have A9o in middle position. I have a good image and make it $25 to isolate. V#2 is on my left and flats. Everyone else folds.
First of all, A9o is WORSE than V1's limp UTG range if you're labeling him as a "nit fish".

Second, without more information, you do not have a good image, especially when you have just been coolered with Q6s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingThor View Post
Flop comes Jd9d9c. V#1 checks I bet $35 V#2 flats, V#1 makes it $100.

I now know V#1 has either 910 or 98. He literally plays no other hands like this. I have $346 back.

What do you do?
Shove, lose, then go home to work on my poker game before playing again.
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Old 12-02-2013, 02:55 PM   #14
sauhund
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Re: Isolating nitfish - 2/5

grunch:
dont iso descripted player with A9o, you are isoing yourself with a hand which is prob dominated by his range.

as played, jam it in. with eff stack sizes i doubt he has much of a r/folding range, and you are well ahead of that range since you lose to J9 or JJ which are doubtfully he plays that way. many cards ott can kill your action if he really is that nitty, but hes never getting away from worse trips here, so jam now.

pre is a clear fold though. isoing a nitfish in position per se is not bad with almost ATC, but this has to be one of the nut worst spots to do it, your hand is likely to be dominated, you are by no means deep enough, plus on a live table you will almost always pick up a hitch hiker or two (i mean, i would play a pretty wide range against a very face up opponent and one who flats KK and plays Q6s against an EP raise...).
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Old 12-02-2013, 03:32 PM   #15
iLikeCaliDonks
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Re: Isolating nitfish - 2/5

Stop playing Q6s
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Old 12-02-2013, 03:36 PM   #16
KingThor
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If nit fish had a better hand then A9 he would have raised.

It was $15 to play with a fish in position with my Qh6h and we were $500 effective. You wouldn't risk $15 for a chance to win$500? I put myself in the exact situation I wanted with the nuts on the turn and 2 players with sets blocking each other and drawing to 20%. If the flop comes queen high with action it's an easy fold.

And the a9 hand took place about 3 hours after the q6 hand and the KK hand. I won the KK and an orbit later lost the q6. 3 hours later the a9 Han occurs.

And I'm always flatting KK to an opponent I read as super strong.
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Old 12-02-2013, 03:44 PM   #17
Ineeda2
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Re: Isolating nitfish - 2/5

^^^ this is pretty results oriented thinking. I would stop thinking like this. $500 effective means 100 bb's so yeah I still probably wouldn't do it. We are in no way deep
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Old 12-02-2013, 03:49 PM   #18
Hungry.Hippo
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Re: Isolating nitfish - 2/5

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingThor View Post
If nit fish had a better hand then A9 he would have raised.
Then clearly you don't know what "nit" means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingThor View Post
It was $15 to play with a fish in position with my Qh6h and we were $500 effective. You wouldn't risk $15 for a chance to win$500?
Only if I can outplay my opponent(s) post flop without having the need to hit my cards, because Q6s has very little absolute value.

It is quite apparent that you don't have that ability post flop:

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingThor View Post
He raised UTG to $20, fish called in the BB and I called cuz I wanted to play with the fish with Qh6h. Flop came Ah4s3h. He bet $40, fish called I called. Turn is a Kh.
Sb checks I check V#2 makes it $100, fish calls, I jam with the nuts.
Both players call.
Plus your HH is incorrect. V2 raised $20 UTG and V1 is in BB, so you must have either been in SB or IP.

So flop action is wrong, and turn action is wrong.

Either way, it is quite clear that you played the hand for absolute value and you were hoping to "hit" to beat your "nit fish" opponent.

Incorrect thought process all around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingThor View Post
I put myself in the exact situation I wanted with the nuts on the turn and 2 players with sets blocking each other and drawing to 20%. If the flop comes queen high with action it's an easy fold.
So let me understand you better. If you flop TP, you're folding, but if you flop a draw, you're calling?

Have you ever ran any sort of equity calculator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingThor View Post
And the a9 hand took place about 3 hours after the q6 hand and the KK hand. I won the KK and an orbit later lost the q6. 3 hours later the a9 Han occurs.

And I'm always flatting KK to an opponent I read as super strong.
Above is just some sort of result oriented thinking to justify your biased thought process that is incorrect.
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Old 01-29-2014, 12:05 AM   #19
troloyolo
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Re: Isolating nitfish - 2/5

The Q6 all is brutal. Possibly an okay hand to squeeze, but calling is pretty absurd.

Q8s would be the absolute rock bottom of your range and even that is probably just -ev. Folding QTs is far from a disaster.

With respect to the J99 board, you can raise/flat. If you flat, AKQJ could all potentially kill your action depending on his holdings (which I don't think you can narrow to 9x or this wouldn't be a question). That's approx 1/3rd of the deck.

The question you need to ask is how to get the most money in the pot, if he's raise stacking overpairs or AJ here, get it in so your action doesn't die. If he's folding all but 9x, flat, as only a J or TQ TK KQ type 2 card runout will kill your action - and if he follows through on the turn which you expect him to then this will be reasonable.

In any case, if he just shows up with JJ then whatever. Move on with life and don't be so results oriented.

Lastly, Isoing with A9o is almost certainly bad if you don't know what to do when you flop the joint. The potential value that exists w/ this hand is pretty darn thin and requires you to play nearly perfectly.

Cheers
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