7 handed, no masks, no plexiglas, $1/3, $300 max
One of the better games I’ve played in in a while. Villains mostly loose passive, feel like hero is the best player by a long shot. Hero has taken down some big pots with nutted hands but also gotten away with a lot of bluffs and semi bluffs by generally being the preflop aggressor.

Hero - $1100, mid 30s, casually dressed polo/shorts, aggressive pre and post, only one 3-betting for the most part, limped 1-2 times in 5 hours
BB - $800, mid to late 50s, tshirt & jeans with paint on them, built stack in about an hour by flopping sets and people blasting off, his table talk seems bad
Button - $400, 40ish, track suit, tight, only played a few hands, none memorable

One limp to hero in LP who has KsKc and makes it $12. Button, BB and limper all quickly call.

Flop Kd9h7c - Pot $42

Checks to hero who bets $15, Button quickly calls, BB thinks for a few seconds and makes it $40. Limper folds, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn 4h -Pot $162

BB leads out $80, Hero?

What do you guys think of pre? I had varied my raises between $12 and $20 depending on position and any limpers. I decided to go $12 because my bigger sizes had started to get folds as my stack grew.

What about the flop play? I didn’t want it to check thru but didn’t want to blow straight draws and weak pairs off the pot.

Turn Play? Obviously a dream turn card and BB 3bet the weak flop lead and then led out with a big turn bet (only half pot but big dollar bet from a weak player).

How do we get all the money?

Iso bigger pre, I go $20.

Flop size looks good. I honestly 3 bet flop $120, JT, T8, 97, K9, K7, worse Kx....We want to play for stacks, and I don't see any of these hands folding to a 3 bet. Yeah, it sucks if he has air, but I find it pretty unlikely with the given dynamics.

You got raised on the flop with top set. You shouldn't be sitting at the turn still trying to figure out how you are gonna get all the money in. The money should be in already or you should be stacking up the chips from when you raised him the size of the pot on the flop and he folded.

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Thanks for you thoughts so far. At this point I can pretty clearly raise and almost any amount will put stack in by the river. I should have stopped at the flop decision point. The top part of his range, sets and 2 pair, I think I can get it in with on almost any turn. My thinking at the time flatting the flop was to target his larger overall range and try to maximize value against that range of which a very big portion folds to a flop 3bet. Sounds like you guys are telling me that ms off base.

Hi Larry,

Nice hand. I don't mind how you played the flop. However, after the button calls your bet, and the action is back to you from the BB's check raise, I think 3 betting is likely the best play to charge the button's drawing hands. I think at that point, with the raise being $25, we can comfortably play out the hand with a raise to $100. He has to call 75 more into a pot of 197. If he calls and the button folds, the pot will be 272. He will have 2 times the pot left and we can comfortably get the rest in on both streets.

This will likely shut out the buttons draws and may keep a king from folding out to a half pot bet on the turn.

As played on the turn, you have to raise in order to build the pot and give him a chance to lose his stack. When you put in the 80 for his bet, the pot is 322, assuming the button folds to your raise, he has 668 left and a raise to 240 will leave him with 75-80% pot left to jam the river. He has about 500 left, so he will be getting 1222/500 on the end. He may call with top pair there...anything better, as you said might go in on the turn.

This. People don’t generally raise/fold any street, especially described player type. You are pretty deep, let’s start smashing in chips.

As played I’d go 280 on turn and shove every river

Good news. I think it is a mistake to be targeting second pairs and draws on the flop. There aren't many draws (T8 and gut shots) and second pair is going to put you on AK. Plus, even if they exist, they aren't going to put much money in the pot. The chances are low, but you want to want to target lower sets and 2 pairs. If your standard bet on the flop is 1/4 to 1/3 pot, then 12 is fine. If not, you're going to become easy to read.

You want to play for stacks. I'd 3bet it to 100 to start the process. As played, hope the villain is doesn't get scared off by the raise you're going to need to make.

I actually don't mind our smaller preflop sizing with these stacks because it gives us a more manageable SPR to work with (especially when we won't be able to create a committing one).

I'm okish with our smallish bet on such a dry board and with it being difficult to get too much action when having top set.

On this dry a board and in position on the flop raiser, I don't hate a flat here. But any idea of what he could be check/raising with here? The stronger we think he is, the more I might just try to pile in more chips right now and do a small raise back to get that ball rolling.

In order to play for stacks we need to raise the turn, imo. If we make it $200, that still leaves us a very large PSB (in terms of $$$) for the river. This is one of the reasons that raising the flop probably ain't horrible (especially if we have an aggro image).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Lol at 3betting flop with top set. You guys are crazy. Calling here 100% of the time

Raise turn to 220 and shove all rivers.

BTW op, bb didn't 3bet your flop bet he just raised. 3betting is when someone bets someone raises and then someone re raises. The re raise is a 3bet. Preflop the blind counts the first bet

Thought I was the one going crazy for a bit because I always call in this spot too. I like OP's c-bet sizing and reasoning behind it.

Can't shove river because it's 300 max bet and he'll have more than that left. I think that should influence turn sizing if raising.

300 is the max buy in, no max bet

I usually don’t worry too much about playing face up against bad players but I couldn’t think of one bluff I would 3bet on the flop against this guy. I could see 3betting bottom or maybe middle set but not top set. When he raises the flop I range him on all TPGK+ hands including sets and 2 pair. I don’t see this player type raising a straight draw. When he led the turn I was convinced my read was correct.

Raise to whatever hell call ott. Perfect to this point.

Lol, oops. Maybe I read it that way partially because there have been a few threads with that rule. I agree with drowski 100% then.

I don't think reraising the flop is all that bad. The problem with flatting is it does make it much more harder to easily play for stacks by the river, especially if the board starts running out stoopid. Even a large 3x raise on the turn still leaves us with $500 for the river (80% PSB); that is a helluva big bet in most 1/3 NL games I play in. The more aggro we are, the more bad he may be, and the more chance he actually has a strong hand on the flop, the more reraising is probably better, imo.

GcluelessNLnoobG

This isn't good logic. Any hand that we have coolered and will call the 3bet will get it in by the river no matter how big we bet on any street. By calling flop we still get value from bluffs and random crap that folds to the 3bet. We're IP and have the nuts. Raising is just flat out terrible. No other way to say it

Calling makes sense in this spot if we expect him to have bluffs and potential raise / folds. Given villain description I expect to get called or raised most of the time if we b/3b

This makes no sense as an argument to advocate a line of play. Top set is an overwhelming favorite against a turn/river calling or betting range. Why "should" we be stacking up chips as the dealer squares the deck and puts it in the shuffler, rather than making more money with turn and river betting?

Note, if you want to argue that 3 betting the flop is good, and that ending the hand just means we were unlucky to hit the bottom of his range, fine. Make your argument. That's different from just flatly stating we should have 3 bet, without a supporting argument.

Shoulds without a supporting rationale lead to playing poker by rote rather than developing understanding.

Hero raises to $250

Button folds and BB calls after a few seconds.

River Jh - Pot $662

BB instajams his remaining $508, hero?

Sure he can have T8 but he could have other hands like sets, KJ, J9 etc.

This is like always T8hh/86hh cuz other big hands get it in on the turn before the scare card comes or freeze up in a big pot thinking they are coolered. But I'm just not good enough to fold top set here, even though for this huge $$$ amount against most opponents it is probably the correct move (although definitely not folding against anyone labelled "bad").

GcluelessNLnoobG

Sorry I missed hearts came in. Fold

discounting hearts because of flop c/r.

Hero calls.

Fold obviously

I did not consider the possibility of hearts due to the flop check raise. I did not think that T8 would call the turn raise. I put him pretty exclusively on sets due to how the hand played out. He actually had AhKh so it was a pretty crazy cooler but I still think I played it well vs my perception of his range. Considering the player type I may have been able to find a river fold when he jams but I could not fold in real time.

The first thing you need to recognize once he ckr flop is that the Kh is available. That’s a tremendous part of his range and exactly why you’re calling flop so you can punish his turn lead - once he shoves river, it’s extremely clear that the average player type has Kxhh and folding is where you actually win money by never paying off the times they hit. I mean sure perhaps his hand is a set and you’re folding badly but it just seems so unlikely. Not surprised whatsoever that he showed you AKhh exactly.