The game is 2-4 SPREAD LIMIT 200 MAX
Hero $400 Asian Tag

V1 $400 stack is a tourist middle aged asian woman.
Typical loose passive. Has raise size tells. (Small = weak large = strong)
I've seen her call huge bets on flop and turn just trying to draw for an overcard.

V2 $220 stack is a middle aged black man who is a reg prop player. He plays tight aggressive, and knows that I am a winning player who usually gets it in with the goods.


Table has been playing extremely loose and mostly everybody there is just donking off money like crazy. Most players are fairly deep.


Hand:
V1 is UTG and raises to $10 (Very small raise at this table)
UTG+1 calls
Hero calls with JThh in MP
LJ calls
HJ calls
CO calls
V2 on Button calls
BB calls


Flop $75 8 Players
Jc 2s 3s

BB open leads for $25
V1 calls
UTG+1 calls
Hero decides that BB doesn't have a big hand here, based on his small lead. Hero decides to raise to $120 to thin the field, as its likely hero has the best hand, yet vunerable hand in this spot. Obviously raise folding to any aggression, and slowing down if any player calls behind.

Everybody folds around to V2 on Button, who calls.
BB folds
V1 tank calls.
UTG+1 folds.


At this point, hero is pretty concerned about V2, but he only has about $90 back at this point. His range is AT KT QT and all FD. Unlikely he would call hero's raise with worse Ts.

V1 still has $270 effective with hero. Based on her line, hero feels ahead of her range here. Her range is likely overcards, flushdraws, and MAYBE AT KT QT, but unlikely, because she would have probably raised the BB's Open. Hero feels good against her range.

Turn $435
Jc 2s 3s 2h

V1 Checks

Pretty much a perfect brick.
Now what is the best play here for hero?
V1 has $270 eff with hero, but V1 only has $90 behind.

Check back or Bet the maximum $200?
If hero bets $200, half of those chips will likely end up with V2, since his range dominates my hand, but hero also doesn't want to check and give a free card to V1.

If hero bets $200, and V1 does have a better hand, at least hero will get V2s money in good, which should result in a slight +ev situation of + $20? (200+200+90= 490. 490 - (90*3) = $220. So $20 return on my original $200 bet)

Or does this situation really suck, because if we assume V2 has a flushdraw, and hero bets $200 here, 80% of the time hero will win $20 bucks, but 20% of the time, hero will lose $200?

What's the best play here?

Best play imho is c/f as silly as it may sound as you are probably beat already.
I'd also just call on flop (and hope for another j or t) on turn. TPMK is really not that strong vs so many possible hands out there. (And not just a flush draw)

I check this back. I'm really not that worried about the free card. We aren't going to be playing a big side pot with V1 OTR. Gambooly but weak middle-aged Asian ladies will keep calling to see if they hit OTR, but rarely call any bets OTR without something better than TPMehK. Give them both the free card and hope that we can have a nice brick river and we can realize our SDV cheaply.

If V2 shoves after we check, I likely fold. Prop players rarely get aggressive with a draw, as they are usually trying to keep variance to a minimum.

I like your advice, in retrospect, checking back turn is best since the side pot with v1 is so minimal, and v2 should crush us.


I guess i put myself in this spot with the flop raise, but i still think the flop raise is the best play in this spot, because hoe many better hands are there on a J23 board? I definitely would have just called the flop if it was something like J79.

Really hate this "thin the field" line of thinking a lot of live players have. You raised with a weak hand vs a bunch of players to "thin the field" and resulted in creating a big pot with TPMK, yay. Just call the flop donkbet and evaluate turn. It's not like this field of players you are concerned about was going to call with 57o and crap.

Just fold the flop or squeeze pre. This is a collosal spew.

Think of mass multiway deep pots like PLO you want to make nuts or huge draws deep. Middling hands like fowl is were weak regs get smashed

Fold flop ainec. Contrary to what you said, it is rather unlikely you have the best hand 8 handed. Even if you did, raising guarantees you get folds from everything you're beating (You don't beat nut draws by much).

Raising is horrid spew. Villains probably have better J's than you, and you don't rep anything cept 22/33 sets + a boat load of FDs. Turn cuts down those combos of sets. People have been donking off money and playing loose as you said butI'd fully expect people to be calling you down with QJ/KJ/AJ.

Your crushed by villain 2s hand range and it's hard to believe villain 1 one called 100 more with two naked overs in a three way pot. Only thing i really think you can rep is 3's full and that's a tough sell. I don't like your raise into 8 players but don't compound it. Check back and pray for a jack or ten as QQ-AA is unlikely. Your raise eliminated all hands you beat except flush draws which likely has one over card at least so your probably flipping for the second best hand on the flop. I doubt villain 1 calls more than 90 with a worse hand than j10 so i don't see anyway around the good old check/pray.