1-3

$325 eff, I cover

V was bad. He limp/called UTG as bad as Q8o, he open limped otb as bad as J7o. I'd say he was about 85/10. Knew when the action was on him but didn't seem like he played much at all.

I raised in MP with AA to $12, he called in LP.

Flop ($25) T 9 9

I bet $20, he called.

KQ/KJ/QJ/Tx all call. I don't know if he's calling a raise with nothing invested with 87, definitely would have limp/called it if he were in front of me.

Turn ($65) T 9 9 - 3

I bet $40, he calls.

Not concerned about spades, still targeting the same range for value.

River ($145) T 9 9 - 3 - K

Hero?

It might not seem like a difficult spot but I thought this was the most difficult river card to play. A ton got there, I beat a lot of it, plenty of it beats me. My confusion was, if I bet, is it a bet/call or a bet/fold? The 16 QJ combos are definitely raising. I don't have the As, so ATss is raising also, that's 17 combos. The thing is, he's only thinking about his hand not mine, so he doesn't understand that I'm not calling a raise with much. If I had QQ/JJ/AT I'm not putting more money in, although that won't stop him from raising some Kx hands. KK/TT is all I'm definitely putting more money in with but since he's not thinking like that, he might raise with all of his KQ/KJ combos because now he beats the high card pair of Tens. Kind of like how young scorpions are the most dangerous because they're not conservative with their poison, his lack of knowledge in position made him dangerous here in that he might successfully pull off turning a made hand into a bluff. I really hate c/c'ing when draws hit not missed. The only merit to c/c is something Greenstein said in Ace On The River. I actually disagreed with this concept so much, I stopped reading AOTR when I read this chapter. But Greenstein had a board runout of TT6-Q while holding KQ and his c-bet otf IP got called. And his thinking ott and otr was: if you bet ott, it's a b/f, only Tx is playing back at you, you'd lose your turn bet, call it $X. So instead, check back ott, and call his river lead which will probably be that same amount, $X. So if he was bluffing you win, if he had Tx the whole way, you would have lost $X ott, you lost the same amount otr so it's no big deal, and you even got to SD. I really hated that thinking of being fine with losing the same amount. But I thought it could be applicable here and it'd result in a rare time to c/c when bluffs aren't really in his range. Usually I only c/c rivers to induce bluffs.

A $12 open got this HU? Where are you playing, on the interwebz?

Even though I understand he'll call these biggish bets on each street, I still probably bet slightly less on each street cuz I don't want to build a huge pot OOP (with my plan being to bet/fold each street).

Ug, gross river card. Is this guy really level 0 clueless enough to be raising a K on the river? If so, I *might* just check/call. Otherwise if he's not completely inept, gross spot. I probably go for weak value against Tx/etc. so like $50, and fold to a raise. Even betting for value here is pretty thin here though, no? I mean, I'm guessing we woulda heard from QQ/JJ by now, I doubt 88- looks us up, which basically leaves Tx and Kx (and is there that many Kx that really call the turn)?

GcluelessNLnoobG

Hmmm... reminds me of a hand I had the other day. I had QQ on a 4-8-8-J-2 no flush board, I bet all streets and V flipped over 8-8. Yes I'm probably being MUBSY after that, I know. Obviously little different with flush draw.

Anywho, OOP, with only 1p and he flat called 2 streets on a board like this. As played, c/c, I wouldn't open yourself up to a raise here with only one pair. You would have to fold to a raise and lose the $70-100 anyway AND not have a chance to win. He may check and you get to SD cheap.

I'm no expert, just hoping to learn. If I am way off, any criticism welcome.

Was thinking the same thing, I may have went $12/$15/$30

I'm fine with bet sizing, but flop could be $15. As played, I bet/fold river $80. This guy is calling with a lot worse and only raising with much better.

I agree. OP, you don't really give much rationale as to why you would expect villain to raise Kx on the river. If he's so passive pre, it would be very unusual for him to raise just a K on the river. b/f 80 seems like a good size. I think the sizing on other streets is fine.

If you really think he raises Kx on the river, then c/c up to 90-100. I don't think you can c/f for a smaller bet against a villain with such a wide range.

Bet fold $65- $110? K10, A10, KQ, KJ, J10, Q10 etc is not folding after calling the $40 on the turn. If hes calling $40 OTT hes calling river.

Villan seems like he puts money in the pot passivley right? So bet fold is the play. We prob. have the best hand more than half the time so that makes it a bet fold instead of a check call then.

Unopened $12-$15 usually does it. It's over limps I need to go a lot bigger. Sometimes in very LP I even go smaller, like $10 to get awful guys in the blinds to see a flop. There are a ton of hands from the blinds that'll fold to $15 but call $10, especially if they have a $5 chip out there it just seems like $5 more to them.

He was passive pre because he played almost every hand, so every starting hand was a draw. When he hit he played closer to what you'd expect, raising sets and straights.



If I lead otr, most people are flatting a hand like KQ because nothing worse calls a raise. His thinking isn't anything close to that. That's why I included the scorpion reference in the OP. With KQ he had a bunch of paint outs, and rivered one, he isn't raising it 100% but he is raising it more than the 0% we would if the roles were reversed. For anyone considering c/c, you're agreeing that he might raise KQ/KJ. If he had KQ and were a great player, and the river gets checked to him, what's he betting to get value from? I'm not c/c'ing with anything that loses to KQ. So him betting KQ when checked to and raising KQ when bet into aren't really different.