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Imagediscussion: How do i change a tight/nitty image in the best way? Imagediscussion: How do i change a tight/nitty image in the best way?

05-31-2013 , 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Reader
You wants to not just widen your value 3bet range, rather you want to have some polarization in it; include the top of your fold range, as well as the top of your call range. Otherwise all it means is that the bottom of your range gets value cut, since you have no bluffs still.

I was actually advocating having both a bluff and value range, and moving some of your value range to your passive range. Otherwise all it means is when you play a hand passively you're weak, and when you play a hand fast, you're strong, which is ridiculously easy to exploit.

Oki, so lets see if i got this now Sol : You suggest that i also sometimes for example flats big value hands like AK and 3 bet suited connectors some percentage of the time, wich will be completely oposite of what my default play is with those type of hands? Usually AK is a 3 bet for me, and suited connectors a flat call. This sort of play will really feel for me as to manipulate my ranges. For example if i 3 bet pre with 6-7 suited, i can guarantee that not one single player at my game will be able to put me of that kind of a hand, and that can for sure lead to them making potencially huge mistakes later in the hand, it this a somewhat correct thinking process?
Imagediscussion: How do i change a tight/nitty image in the best way? Quote
05-31-2013 , 04:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22
My bad maybe. I told him to let us know how it goes but that may have been misconstrued.

No problem man- i will of course follow the rules on this forum. I got most of the rules figured out i believe, but i still has some leaks
Imagediscussion: How do i change a tight/nitty image in the best way? Quote
05-31-2013 , 05:17 AM
Generally only in good spots (with AK KK AA), I mean more flatting hands like AQ JJ TT since you're value cutting yourself as you're overreping your hands, and instead throw in, not GOOD suited connectors, but THE TOP OF YOUR FOLD RANGE, so hands that aren't good enough to call, you want to take them to a 3bet, but only take the best hands of that category, so like KQ KJ QJ vs a tightish raiser or bad position, or like 47s and weaker SCs that you can't call or like A2-A5s, K9s etc.
Imagediscussion: How do i change a tight/nitty image in the best way? Quote
05-31-2013 , 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Reader
Generally only in good spots (with AK KK AA), I mean more flatting hands like AQ JJ TT since you're value cutting yourself as you're overreping your hands, and instead throw in, not GOOD suited connectors, but THE TOP OF YOUR FOLD RANGE, so hands that aren't good enough to call, you want to take them to a 3bet, but only take the best hands of that category, so like KQ KJ QJ vs a tightish raiser or bad position, or like 47s and weaker SCs that you can't call or like A2-A5s, K9s etc.

Glad you have patience with meThis is kind of new aspects for me,but exciting stuff. The flatting part with JJ-TT type of hands i have incorporated already in my game, its the 3 bet part that obviously need some balance.
Imagediscussion: How do i change a tight/nitty image in the best way? Quote
05-31-2013 , 12:00 PM
The thing is if you only ever 3bet good hands, it becomes very easy to just... fold. And it's not just about "balance". Fact is, some players live play very tightly against reraises because many people only 3bet premiums, so 3betting suddenly becomes very profitable just on their own. In no way I'm describing a purely balance-based play.

When people try to exploit you by folding too much, fight back by bluffing, it's that simple. In practice I really just look at the situation and find spots where 3betting is immediately profitable, and then I do it. Just look for people who play open loosely but defend a bit tighter and may play fit or fold postflop. Target those.
Imagediscussion: How do i change a tight/nitty image in the best way? Quote
05-31-2013 , 12:06 PM
Agreeing with Sol, but caution that in my experience there are not a lot of those players out there. There are a few at my games, but the majority will just call the 3 bet no matter what and call down with 3rd pair. This makes anything other than value 3 betting unprofitable. If however, you find yourself up against some players who will let go to a 3 bet or 3bet/cbet then that's the time to start opening it up with the ranges Sol suggested. It's also important to note that even if these players are at the table, you still have to consider the station morons who may cold call a 3 bet with QJ or something, so it still might not be worth it in some situations.
Imagediscussion: How do i change a tight/nitty image in the best way? Quote
05-31-2013 , 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Reader
The thing is if you only ever 3bet good hands, it becomes very easy to just... fold. And it's not just about "balance". Fact is, some players live play very tightly against reraises because many people only 3bet premiums, so 3betting suddenly becomes very profitable just on their own. In no way I'm describing a purely balance-based play.

When people try to exploit you by folding too much, fight back by bluffing, it's that simple. In practice I really just look at the situation and find spots where 3betting is immediately profitable, and then I do it. Just look for people who play open loosely but defend a bit tighter and may play fit or fold postflop. Target those.

Maybe i described it bad with using the word "balance". What i do feel my game lacks, is different gears and manipulate my ranges more. As you correct mentioned: for good observant players (wich the regs at my games usually are), its easy for them to just fold when i 3 bet. Stations and fish are a whole different idea, i feel like i have a good win rate against bad players- i beat them with my solid fundamentals. They are just to bad to find the fold button. I can sit folding for two hours straight- and still got them to call my 3 bet to 80 bucks pre with KK.

Against the regulars i feel like i would like to try put them to more difficult decisions- for example in 3 bet pots. Instead of thinking "now x is 3 betting, he has KK or AA", i want them to be more lost in the hand as a result of me 3 betting a little bit wider against them. From what ive seen from a couple of these players, that kind of "tweaking" my game can possibly set them up to make huge mistake when they eventually completely will misread me. This is gonna be my first small step, and i belive after this discussion that its the correct direction.

Spikeraw: I have at least 2 or 3 regulars at mye game that are able to pull the breaks when they face heat, and they are capable of slowing down and folding to 3 bets (or any heat on the flop/turn/river) from me. I usually play 6-8 hours sessions, so hopefully a couple of good spots will occure

Last edited by Gilmour; 05-31-2013 at 12:27 PM.
Imagediscussion: How do i change a tight/nitty image in the best way? Quote
05-31-2013 , 12:57 PM
you don't have to loosen up very much, just change how you play the hands you have, when you are in a pot with these players. almost certainly they see you as a fish and are targeting you, so it's important to fight back. but fighting back does not just mean more aggression

when you show strength, and they play back, and they are observant and know you're a nit, they have a monster, so fold the lower parts of your range

do some trapping when you have monsters, so it's not obvious that you're weak when you check or flat a bet, or that you're strong when you bet or raise

bluff a little more often, it's free money for a nit, because even if they know you are bluffing from time to time, they can't really do much about it ... if they do catch you, they will probably think you bluff much more than you actually do

Last edited by ggnoobs; 05-31-2013 at 01:04 PM.
Imagediscussion: How do i change a tight/nitty image in the best way? Quote

      
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