So i'm playing a pretty fishy 2/5 game @ on Saturday night at the local. Game had maybe 2 - 3 regs and the rest were most like recs. They took some fishy lines

Here is first hand - Hero is CO ($1500) with A7 - MP1 ($1200) who is a reg opens to $20 - fishy player ($700) calls $20 - I 3bet to $75 (I havn't 3bet in a while and figured I would get some respect) - reg calls - fish calls. Flop a dream of 752

check / check - I cbet $150 / reg folds / fish calls

Turn J

I jam / fish calls

8 I show and MHIG - he must of had some sort of draw or weaker 7

So i'm up like $2300ish at this point

He reloads to $500ish and plays a few hands before this one

This time he is CO and opens to $25 and I call on BTN and SB and BB both call.

$100 pot of J74
check / check / fish bets $55 / I call / fold / fold

$210 pot 4
he checks - I bet $80 - he jams $385 and I fold =(

Any one think I should call this off? I felt the check raise was super strong on the turn.

You didn't say what you had but the top of your range should be AJ here, which is a trivial fold.

Top of your range should be 44

I assume you had some sort of jack. Definitely fold.

no I had AJ LOL sorry guys.

I really felt uneasy about folding here, but i'm pretty sure it was the correct play.

you can't have 77 or 44 here?

either way, not knowing too much about V, feels like a population fold, though this guy seems pretty spewy. Might be a call against some Vs, just don't have enough information from 1 hand history to say.

I was thinking to myself that you talk about regularly 3betting 77, so would that mean AJ/KJ/JTs are also pretty standard 3bets here as well?

I'm kind of surprised to see this line from a fish. Stack a donk was kind of popular for online poker back in the day. I'll use it occasionally if I think a player will flat my c-bet with a ton of draws and then bet when checked to on the turn. This is such a dry board, tho, and he has no reason to view you as particularly spewy. Maybe he saw it on a youtube video and decided to try it out live.

I fold AJ here and don't feel too bad about it. We block 3 combos of top set, but it feels a lot more likely for this villain to be doing this with AA than an OESD or something as random as AK. If he has a really low PFR then maybe he doesn't even get here with 65s.

I 3bet regs and smaller opens with AJo but not this guys because I thought his $25 open was pretty strong, but my hand on the BTN was kinda too strong to fold and I didn't think it was too out of line or weak to call - so I called.


Maybe a 3bet/fold would of been better - who knows. I figured once he check raised he had a hand like QQ+ so I gave him the credit and folded.

Grunch: folding quads is probably a mistake here

Post-Grunch: I doubt he has any bluffs in his range here, folding AJ seems fine

If you suspect your opponent's opening is strength, then folding pre-flop is a viable option here.

I would have preferred looking for value on river. Turn still fine, now fold.

Isn't AJ like the trappiest of trap hands in NLH? What am I missing?

Easy fold to kr imhe. Potentially nit-folding pre.

I wasnt going to mention it but AJ should be 3b or fold in this spot imo. If hes too strong to 3b then what are you hoping to see OTF?

He only felt V was strong having ck-r turn not pre. Otb there's nothing wrong with a call/3b mix against a guy likely opening a lot of hands.

.

Reading is fundamental. My bad.

It's still a call>raise against described player, even at ~500eff. Nitpicking.

def not folding AJ here

I don't get it. If you think AJ is probably the best hand, threebet. If you don't, then why are you playing it? It's not like you're getting pot odds of 4 to 1 or something, you're calling 5bb into a 6.4bb pot. And it's not like AJ hits hidden hands and over-realizes.

I don't get what the plan is postflop. Playing fit or fold is blatantly obviously -EV, since you mostly don't hit and are by no means assured of being good if you do. If you're not playing fit or fold then you're what - floating vs a range that you considered too strong to threebet against pre?

I guess the most succinct way of putting it is: if you don't think your hand is better than his range right now, what do you think is going to happen postflop that will change that?

I agree w/ 3bet or fold strategy. If I have an inkling my opponent has any kind of strength, I just fold. I'd fold a suited connector too, but I think calling with that is better than calling with AJ, because at least the flops that hit you do not necessarily hit your opponent. There is almost no flop that is beneficial to a raise w/ strength w/ AJ. J hi flop loses to overpair, and ace-high flop loses to AK. Good luck getting value out of either even if you are ahead after the flop. Your opponent can get max value out of you + you cannot get max value out of your opponent = BAD.

I also fold AJs in early except in perfect games, so nit gonna nit I guess.

AJ is one of those hands I have in lots of ranges, as most, but this guy's been labeled a fish and is only a few hands removed from a stack-off. I'm otb, so I expect to have a +ev call w AJ otb even against one of his yet-unclear-range stronger open sizes/reads. I also don't have to 3b the 'best hand' otb. 3betting sometimes sure, perhaps it's higher EV wise, but keeping things wider (than 3b) against a guy who seems to stack off light post is still immediately >0ev.
Post flop I'd call this flop ck turn and play a river.

I didn't mean call>raise above... I meant call>fold...

I'm shocked at the number of players telling him to fold AJ on the button to a cut-off raise from a fish.

Pretty sure that number is zero?

I'd threebet. "Threebet or fold" is just an attempt to reckon with him telling me that this $25 open is too strong to threebet, which I don't buy.

Basically I don't think call is a compromise between raise and fold here. It's just not having the courage of your convictions. We are in terrible shape against a range heavy on hands better than AJ.

I wasn't there and maybe the $25 open really is some sick tell that he's strong. Fold, then.

Lol at trying to read into a 25 open at 2/5. Especially from a fish who just reloaded.

me either.

he is either bluffing, or repping some kind of 4 on that turn. but that check/shove doesn't make any sense.

plus, we have outs to the J or most likely the A. and we are getting 2:1, so we only have to be good 33% of the time here.