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Old 06-23-2014, 06:21 PM   #1
givinaway
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I flopped top set deep HU (1-3nl)

Hey everyone,

Great responses to my last post, thank you! Here is another hand:

History:

So hero and villain have played a few hands against each other in this session. Villain is white guy in his 20s taggish player. I haven't seen him do much out of the ordinary. I've won a few smallish pots from him by bluffing him. I think he views me as semi loose aggressive, I have been pretty active at the table.

Stacks: Hero 450ish Villian 600ish

Hand:

utg limps, Hero (utg+1) raises to 20 with QQ, folded to Villain in sb (who just won a decent pot and is stacking his chips) calls, bb folds, and utg folds.

Villain says "ill check dark"

Flop: (pot 42)

Qh 7d 4c

Villain checks dark, Hero checks.

I checked here for a couple of reasons: First, I want to give him a chance to bluff me. I want him to think I have something with showdown value, but my hand isn't strong enough to bet all three streets or take heat from a check raise. Also, the board is so dry I feel he folds to my cbet a large portion of the time.

Turn:
Qh 7d 4c 6d

Villain checks, Hero bets 30. 2 seconds later Villain says "55 on top" and makes it 85. Hero ?
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Old 06-23-2014, 06:55 PM   #2
Cassim
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Re: I flopped top set deep HU (1-3nl)

Bet flop here with your image.
As played call turn / call river.
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Old 06-23-2014, 07:09 PM   #3
BackDoorFlush
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Re: I flopped top set deep HU (1-3nl)

Not c-betting this flop is almost criminal.
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Old 06-23-2014, 07:10 PM   #4
Pentakilla
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He got two pair (6-7) or bottom set at best bro. Take his ass to value town. If he nutted turn, it's cause you missed flop cbet. Only gave him free card.

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Old 06-23-2014, 07:37 PM   #5
OSUTexan
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Re: I flopped top set deep HU (1-3nl)

Given history between Hero and V....think you need to be betting this flop. A lot of times villains won't give hero credit when you triple barrel this hand after running over him....these are the times you need to be going to value town.

As played, I like flatting his raise on turn and setting up for a shove on river.
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Old 06-23-2014, 07:51 PM   #6
givinaway
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Re: I flopped top set deep HU (1-3nl)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BackDoorFlush View Post
Not c-betting this flop is almost criminal.
Care to elaborate? I think you are wrong.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:09 PM   #7
BulltexasATM
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Re: I flopped top set deep HU (1-3nl)

Quote:
Originally Posted by givinaway View Post
Care to elaborate? I think you are wrong.
Because your stack is $450 and there is only $42 in the pot. You need to start to building the pot to try and make sure you get stacks in if he has a hand.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:22 PM   #8
DrunkTilt
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What are you trying to represent by checking back the flop?

Isn't this a flop you would normally Cbet with about your entire range after raising in ep? Especially if villain views you as semi loose/aggro.
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:35 PM   #9
givinaway
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Re: I flopped top set deep HU (1-3nl)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkTilt View Post
What are you trying to represent by checking back the flop?

Isn't this a flop you would normally Cbet with about your entire range after raising in ep? Especially if villain views you as semi loose/aggro.
I am trying to rep 88-JJ or a QT, QJ, QK. But I think you are right because I probably should be cbetting my entire range on this flop. I felt like this was a good player to set a trap against. I definitely planned to bomb turn and river hoping he might try and make a play at me.
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:42 PM   #10
givinaway
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Re: I flopped top set deep HU (1-3nl)

I am really interested in what everyone thinks about the turn. I think checking back this flop is perfectly fine. As long as he didn't flat me oop with 56, 35, 85, or 68 I am not giving him a free draw at anything.

Vs your typical fish of course this is a bet, bet, bet but this guy is fairly competent and believe there are plenty of other ways to get it all in here at some point.
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:53 PM   #11
evildeadalive
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Re: I flopped top set deep HU (1-3nl)

A competent player will call or raise what looks like a completely standard cbet on that flop.

As played, I'm making it 185 on turn, and calling a shove.
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:53 PM   #12
fizzypants
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Re: I flopped top set deep HU (1-3nl)

OP, curious to know the results
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Old 06-23-2014, 10:30 PM   #13
sr1129
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Re: I flopped top set deep HU (1-3nl)

"Villain who just won a decent pot and is still stacking his chips calls from the sb" this is probably the most important detail of this post. He calls the raise out of position while stacking his chips from winning the hand before? You will be up against the very top of villains range every time here. So we should always cbet this flop. Villain almost always has a pocket pair JJ/KK/AA or a lower set. I can't see anyone calling in the sb while stacking the winnings with 8-5o or 3-5. Now that I think about it, esp his raise size, he could have turned an OESD with pocket 5s.

Im GII and happy about it.
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Old 06-24-2014, 12:16 PM   #14
Javanewt
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Re: I flopped top set deep HU (1-3nl)

I agree that you should have c-bet, especially with his dark check. As played I raise turn and am never folding. Not sure what he can continue with now, though. C-betting sets you up so much better, and he might take a stab on the flop with a check-raise, which would be great. I just hope he did flop two pair or a set so that the money gets in.
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Old 06-24-2014, 01:11 PM   #15
gobbledygeek
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Re: I flopped top set deep HU (1-3nl)

When we flop monsters, our goal should be to play for stacks. It will be very difficult to play for stacks by letting this flop check thru.

Even though the flop is bone dry, I would just go ahead and PSB it. There's a decent chance villain doesn't have anything, and wouldn't have made anything on the turn even if we allow him to see it for free. In these cases, we probably won't make much money off of him, oh well. But he might have something on the flop, or he might decide to get tricky, or he might just decide to see a turn and see what happens (plus perhaps even hit something), and in these cases we need to build a pot in order to give us a chance to play for those stacks. I would much rather check behind with a mediocre hand (like TPTK or an overpair) where we don't want to play for 150bb stacks. ETA: And as others have mentioned, our aggro/active image means we should be betting this flop even more.

As played, I would have made a PSB on the turn. Again, the goal with monster hands is to build monster pots, and we don't make monster pots by checking or betting not large.

The board is now quite drawy at this point (where a lot of cards could kill the action / kill our hand on the river). I would make a big re-raise. I like offering poor 2:1 odds to chase so I'd put in $260, but I wouldn't argue with like $200, each of which offer poor odds and setup an easy shove on the river.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 06-24-2014, 01:20 PM   #16
iraisetoomuch
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Re: I flopped top set deep HU (1-3nl)

Bet the flop!
For value!
And so that we can hope to get stacks in later!

As plyed, I'd 3bet smalish to like $185 or so.
Shove just about all rivers.
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Old 06-24-2014, 02:52 PM   #17
squeek12
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Re: I flopped top set deep HU (1-3nl)

Have to bet the flop for the reasons stated. When you check the flop and then wake up later in the hand it just screams slow played monster.

I had a hand the other night where I flopped a set of aces HU in position on a pretty dry board. I cbet the flop but then check backed on the turn hoping to induce a light value bet or bluff on the river. Guy bet about 1/2 pot on the river, I shoved, and he folded. He said he folded a flopped top 2 pair and figured me for a set after my river shove.

I'm still thinking about how he would have likely c/r'ed me on the turn or at the very least called 3 streets and I stack him either way. I missed so much value that 3 days later I still can't get over it lol.
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:38 PM   #18
JoeyyyyyG
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Re: I flopped top set deep HU (1-3nl)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BackDoorFlush View Post
Not c-betting this flop is almost criminal.
+1000000
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