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I am searching good preflop Ranges for live Poker

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10-05-2020 , 05:23 PM

goforall

newbie

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 32

Does anyone know where to get good preflop Ranges for live Poker?

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10-05-2020 , 05:28 PM

PastaTeke

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 306

Jonathan Little has a lot of good preflop charts out there for different stack depths.

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10-05-2020 , 05:47 PM

borg23

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Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 15,044

every live table is very different
learn to adjust on the fly,think through different sitations and be social. those are all way more important than some cookie cutter chart.

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10-05-2020 , 06:07 PM

goforall

newbie

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 32

Does anyone know the preflop ranges from RYE for live Poker?
Are they any good? Is there a way to just purchase the ranges and not the complete course?

@borg23: of course. I see ranges as a baseline for my play and adjust when I know more about my fellow players.

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10-07-2020 , 08:44 AM

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,519

Someone moved this to LLSNL, but it is not clear whether that's what you're looking for. Are you looking for cash or tournament?

Frankly, I think preflop range charts are more of a Beginner's Questions thing either way.

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10-07-2020 , 01:07 PM

Playbig2000

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garick

Frankly, I think preflop range charts are more of a Beginner's Questions thing either way.

+1

the words Charts and Poker go together like oil and water. They don't mix. No two situations are ever the same.

No one should be memorizing charts, even in the beginning.

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10-07-2020 , 01:20 PM

Mr Spyutastic

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

+1

the words Charts and Poker go together like oil and water. They don't mix. No two situations are ever the same.

No one should be memorizing charts, even in the beginning.

Hard disagree. Charts can be very useful to illustrate the types of hands that should be played in various positions and vs various actions.

Is it important than you memorize every exact point? No, but you should know what the baselines are and the logic behind them.

Also very useful for pushbot strats in tourneys and sngs

Last edited by Mr Spyutastic; 10-07-2020 at 01:25 PM.

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10-07-2020 , 03:58 PM

RoadtoPro

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Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 6,600

+1

But not just for opening ranges OP. For everything else too.

Including cold calling, vs 3-bet, vs cold 3-bet, vs 4-bet etc.

Learning how you should deviate based on the configuration.

Once you do that then yeah you can basically disregard it because your baseline strat can’t be bad at least. Most people’s are.

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10-07-2020 , 04:09 PM

Playbig2000

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic

I'm specifically talking about cash, since this is a cash forum. Of course you need them for tournies. But for cash, it's easier for a new player to learn the value of starting hands, then adjust them for your position, villains ranges, and a ton of other factors. Even for new players, studying charts is doing it the hard way imho.

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Originally Posted by RoadtoPro

But not just for opening ranges OP. For everything else too.

Including cold calling, vs 3-bet, vs cold 3-bet, vs 4-bet etc.

Really, charts for everything? Doesn't anyone take villains 3bet range into account anymore? It's actually the most important factor in the hand, not memorizing a cold call 3bet chart.

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10-07-2020 , 04:22 PM

#10

RoadtoPro

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I didn’t say anything about memorizing, per say. Although, that could help.

It’s important to know what optimal play looks like in every spot to be able to adjust accurately.

If you use your brain well, there are no downsides to having this info. It can only help.

You’ll need to do this in some form eventually so might as well do it in the beginning.

there are a ton of spots where people justify actions that basically never should be taken. Having the aforementioned knowledge can prevent this from happening.

imo.

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10-07-2020 , 04:32 PM

#11

RoadtoPro

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It is implied that you’re adjusting on top of this in every situation.

But good fundamentals are important.

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10-07-2020 , 04:55 PM

#12

Petrucci

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

+1

the words Charts and Poker go together like oil and water. They don't mix. No two situations are ever the same.

No one should be memorizing charts, even in the beginning.

+2

Never learned a chart since i started playing poker. I think memorizing charts is like training wheels when learning how to ride a bike.

Sure, you should have a decent idea in your head that K9 off isnt an open UTG- or that C betting AQ 4 ways on 4-5-6 flop isnt a good idea.But besides that there isnt any substitute to learning the fundamentals and learning _why_ you are doing things. If and when you do, proper range constructions will develope and take place naturally.

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10-07-2020 , 06:02 PM

#13

Mr Spyutastic

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,132

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petrucci

It's a tool to greatly accelerate learning so you can get on to more interesting things like Flop, turn and river.

Can you learn without it through trial and error and years of experience? Sure you can. But to say that they are useless just because you yourself didn't use them is wrong.

It's like a musician claiming music theory is worthless because they happened to learn by just playing around by ear.

"I don't need no scales to teach me how to play. Back in my day you just played around and found out what sounded good."

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10-07-2020 , 09:10 PM

#14

RoadtoPro

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You're not playing very many hands live per session. It's going to take forever to get better at pre-flop through live experience. Online, that's a fine approach sure.

The point is more so that having good fundamentals (in this case through "memorizing" solid ranges vs various actions) gives you a better starting point to adjust with.

Obviously at a certain point they become useless for live low stakes poker, even as a reference point.

OP Upswing is a fine starting point. Zenith as well.

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10-08-2020 , 11:57 AM

#15

hitchens97

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,455

I really like Ed Miller's ranges in his book "The Course". It's generally a fairly TAG range (though on the looser end of TAG), and fwiw compared to other TAG ranges it skews more aggressively to suitedness (especially suited aces) and PPs, and less to to bigger unsuitedness.

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