Hey guys--just wanted some thoughts on a pretty strange hand that played out for me in a home game recently.

4 way game - 2 tight/nit players and 1 pretty lag/maniac

Games been playing pretty big. Lots of rebuys and everyone is sitting pretty deep.

Villain is relatively new to the game. He raises and shows down good hands, has not gotten out of line, and has been a big winner. Most of his winnings this session are from maniac who has run into villain's monsters (running hot). I make a comment that villain could probably get away with murder given how hot he is running. Generally I think villain's play is a bit too weaktight and try to pounce when I can. He has shown that he can call a lot of flops and fold to continued turn pressure even with a TPTK type hand.

I have been raising villains limps almost every opportunity I had since he almost always c/f'd flop. He caught me once by limp reraising with TT. In general, he has raised preflop with JJ+ type holdigs and his limps have been incredibly weak.

Nearing end of session, effective stacks with villain is around $600.

Villain limps first to act, and I make it $10 with A7. Folds around to villain who flats it.

Pot size: $23

Flop comes A 8 4

Villain leads for $10 and I raise to $40.

As a note, I have seen him lead in similar spots with middle pair/air/weak top pair. I am happy to take it down here... but he calls.

Pot size: $103

The turn comes a 5.

He checks to me and I bet $70. He thinks for nearly a minute and calls.

Pot size: $243

River comes a 6. He takes about 10 seconds... and goes all in!

Its about $450-500 for me to call.

Thoughts?

8xdd is in his range still..... These spots are really tough to answer over the computer. Overbet shoves with a backdoor draw getting there are pretty sick. These backdoor draws come in for villains with made hands more often than people think. Not saying you are auto-folding but definitly something to think about.

The shove just doesnt seem to go with the HH. I dont see what diamonds he can have now that you have the Adiamond. Since you are repping a hand that doesnt have a straight in it from the flop play, I would actually steer more towards calling in this spot. Can he ever thin value shove with a set since your line has sets at the TOP of your perceived range? He can have tried the desperation bluff once in a while, or can have the same hand as you (A7)

Also, you said he hasnt gotten out of line but is up big. Maybe that allows him to try some FPS. With that being said, some people are really protective of their profit, where others will take chances since "they are up"

Given provided reads this is an auto-turbo-fold. He's going to show you a flush or better just about every time.

Without the A of diamonds, I lean towards turbomuck but since I have it, I thought the range of value hands he could possibly do this with is is narrowed significantly.

exactly why this is a super tough spot!

Snap fold. These overbets are nearly always good live. Save your money.

This line of reasoning is illogical because it's backdoor so he is not putting you on the diamond flush draw at all, much less one that's A-high.

Can he do this with a set? He never thinks you have a straight given how hand is played. Flushes don't make too much sense. Why would he call you with an 8xdd? You accounting for the Ad changes everything. I think I would call because he can have (badly played) sets in his range here. Maybe he's thinking about raising on the turn and that's what takes him so long.

But with the Ad we can take Axdd out of his range. Nothing else makes sense given he called a flop raise. When we put him on a range we have to take everything into account. OP said he has been folding his TPTK hands, so I don't see how he has any diamond on the flop.

You having the ace of diamonds def makes this a way tougher spot... The fact that you have raised his flop bets so much makes me think every 8xdd hand is in his range. The snap jam is tough.... it sort of makes me lean more to a straight than a flush.... but I do think u are chopping at best here... this hand is sick, and would make me pretty angry, but i think Id have to fold eventually.

What was the point of the preflop raise and, especially, the flop raise?

Preflop raise was because short handed. I would like to know why we raised flop also. Flat and let him bet w the worst hand. He doesn't continue often with worse. Why do u want to just take it down rift now? I never understood that concept at least when there's no draws at all.

As played fold. U have shown a lot of strength and he just jams into u for overpot.

weak/tight preflop usually translates to weak/tight postflop...i think you see 7x or 8xdd or 23dd enought to merit a fold. its def. a sick spot & worth the post, but if villain is truely a weak/tight player and hasnt been getting out of line, then I give him credit for getting lucky. its not like you checked back the turn or just flatted the flop, you are actually repping a huge hand as you played & I think he expects you to have a huge hand =>therefore fold.

also, the fact that he tanked so long on the turn worries me, maybe he was thinking "hmm I have a flush draw now, I was just gonna probably fold my 8xdd but I guess Ill call now to see if I hit, if I do Im gonna get paid" <-thats how weak/tight players think

Are you hoping to get called on the flop and on the turn?

I feel like we are betting without a purpose here. If the flop is HU we are in the near definition of WAWB. I get that this is shorthanded but thinking back to my 6max uL days, I don't think I'd raise the flop here nearly ever.

I also think we can bet $60 ott, pricing out his 2pr draws/FDs (assuming you won't be paying him off) and keep the pot a bit smaller.

As played it's a pretty trivial fold. We need to win here an absurd % to break even and we can't discount K8dd even.

Thinking back to this hand, flop and turn play was probably far from optimal but I can't change that.

As played, the A of diamonds leaned me towards a call and I ended up doing so.

Villain showed an A3o for the bluff

Thanks for the analysis

After rereading I think I got your villain description confused with another thread. This villain is NOT weak/tight at all so...nice call

I think Villain shows up with a flush way more often than you would think. That combined with the chances you're chopping the times you aren't losing, and the massive overbet leaving you no odds, equals a fold.

Call

I don't like the flop raise. I also check the turn behind. No need to bloated the pot with such a weak holding as we probably have very little fold equity vs this guy.
On the river there isn't much that we beat, so I'm folding quick.
Because of this villains description it sounds like he likes to see a lot of flops with weak/speculative hands so I can definitely see 7x8x and AdXd type of stuff. Just fold.

I'd fold preflop.

As played, I'd just call the flop bet.

As played, I'd check behind on the turn.

As played, I'd fold to the river shove.