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Huge River Decision 1/2 Huge River Decision 1/2

01-30-2018 , 11:38 AM
H utg1 $185 w/ KQo; V1 BB $320; V2 MP $19; V3 Btn $28

H limps KQo; V2 all in for $19; V1&3 call and H calls

Main Pot is $72 on flop of Qs7d3c
V1 checks and H bets $15; V3 folds and V1 raises to $30; H calls

Side pot is $60 on turn of Kh
V1 checks and H bets $45; V1 calls

Side pot is $150 on river of 7s
V1 jams all in for H remaining stack of $90

Board reads Qs 7d 3c Kh 7s. H has played with V1 often and has a solid read that V1 is a bad reg.

Any feedback on the line I chose up to this point? Does H call or fold river?
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01-30-2018 , 11:53 AM
Not a huge decision, especially getting 240/90 or 2.7-1 to call with top 2. His range includes toms of hands that don't have a 7. Frankly, looks like 33 is thew only thing you lose to.

Your line is fine assuming you call the river.
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01-30-2018 , 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorn7
Not a huge decision, especially getting 240/90 or 2.7-1 to call with top 2. His range includes toms of hands that don't have a 7. Frankly, looks like 33 is thew only thing you lose to.

Your line is fine assuming you call the river.
Hero called and V1 shows 67o
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01-30-2018 , 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regwill7
Hero called and V1 shows 67o
Cooler. Weird flop raise by V got him the rest of the $$. Oh well, re-buy time.
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01-30-2018 , 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorn7
Cooler. Weird flop raise by V got him the rest of the $$. Oh well, re-buy time.
What are some of the hands that V1 takes this line with that don’t have a 7, or which I can beat?
Huge River Decision 1/2 Quote
01-30-2018 , 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regwill7
What are some of the hands that V1 takes this line with that don’t have a 7, or which I can beat?
AQ, QJ, QT, Q9, smaller pp. The problem is that the river card is a great one to bluff and the combined pots are too big for you to fold. That is a combo for you to go broke no matter how you play it.

Mark this guy as an awful player (or at least watch him)...his turn call is atrocious.
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01-30-2018 , 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorn7
AQ, QJ, QT, Q9, smaller pp. The problem is that the river card is a great one to bluff and the combined pots are too big for you to fold. That is a combo for you to go broke no matter how you play it.

Mark this guy as an awful player (or at least watch him)...his turn call is atrocious.
Your feedback is greatly appreciated. Two orbits later V is whining about being three outted lmao smh.
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01-30-2018 , 12:41 PM
dont limp pre, wtf. Why is everyone so shortstacked, is this a home game? there shouldnt be 2 people with stacks that short. As played back jam it all in preflop I guess? Post flop is trivial and also not super well played but youre never folding.
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01-30-2018 , 12:43 PM
To start things off you shouldn't be limping utg with anything. The flop is an easy bet but $15 isn't nearly enough.I'd go between $50-pot. As played I call and jam turn. The river is a call but we're only in that spot due to poor decisions leading up to it.
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01-30-2018 , 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrubyKGB
To start things off you shouldn't be limping utg with anything. The flop is an easy bet but $15 isn't nearly enough.I'd go between $50-pot. As played I call and jam turn. The river is a call but we're only in that spot due to poor decisions leading up to it.
Why bet so big on the flop? What am I getting value from and it is a dry side pot on a dry board? My limp was a bad play which ultimately set myself up for the eventual suck out.
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01-30-2018 , 01:11 PM
Yeah I like the 3b pre. I was thinking you could do eighty, but really you're committed, so yes backjam. Villains apart from the all in are capped. Very unlikely they call you.
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01-30-2018 , 01:14 PM
hand advice

Don't be the first limp preflop!!!!!! Raise or fold

Seriously it's the worst play someone can do. totally kills profitability. open to $10 or w/e standard raise is in the game. when dummy goes all in for $19, and you get 2 callers, ship it in there and watch the $19 flatters run for the hills
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01-30-2018 , 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtm1208
hand advice

Don't be the first limp preflop!!!!!! Raise or fold

Seriously it's the worst play someone can do. totally kills profitability. open to $10 or w/e standard raise is in the game. when dummy goes all in for $19, and you get 2 callers, ship it in there and watch the $19 flatters run for the hills
There is never an absolute in NL poker. Limping as first in can be a fine play if the situation is right (not saying this is it...just pointing out that Raise or Fold ONLY is a limit derived concept).
Huge River Decision 1/2 Quote
01-30-2018 , 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorn7
There is never an absolute in NL poker. Limping as first in can be a fine play if the situation is right (not saying this is it...just pointing out that Raise or Fold ONLY is a limit derived concept).
From a moderately advanced and above perspective, I'll agree with you. I think when one is learning the basics and honing in on skill, there can be some "never do xyz" to start with, and after your talent's built you can remove the limitations of "never."

There are certain situations where a limp can be acceptable for an advanced player that is aware of why he is limping. For a player of OP's skill level, I think it's best to eliminate open Limping in early position for the time being.
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01-30-2018 , 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regwill7
Why bet so big on the flop? What am I getting value from and it is a dry side pot on a dry board? My limp was a bad play which ultimately set myself up for the eventual suck out.
Doesn't have to be quite that big as I just seen the other players have $9 behind. Half pot at minimum though. It's not always about getting value, there's something to be said for just winning the pot. We do get value from any Q and prevent villain from calling with air/weak pairs. Nobody is folding $15 into $87.
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01-30-2018 , 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtm1208
From a moderately advanced and above perspective, I'll agree with you. I think when one is learning the basics and honing in on skill, there can be some "never do xyz" to start with, and after your talent's built you can remove the limitations of "never."

There are certain situations where a limp can be acceptable for an advanced player that is aware of why he is limping. For a player of OP's skill level, I think it's best to eliminate open Limping in early position for the time being.
Fair enough. I tend to play very deep when at all possible so in those cases there are potentially a lot more opportunities to limp when first in than what OP might see.
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01-30-2018 , 02:43 PM
Fold or Raise pre.

Shove flop,
Shove turn.

Uuuuh. I really don't know what to do on river because I'd never get there in this manner.
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01-30-2018 , 03:52 PM
Huge river decision? I must have missed it. I see a villain with a weird line bet 90 into a 150 pot and we have top 2 pair. Snap call, but as others have said, would not have gotten here this way.
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02-01-2018 , 05:32 AM
Only person that played this right is V2...
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02-01-2018 , 01:48 PM
Bet flop bigger.

All in on turn.

Huge decision on river. Show or not show? If my opponent is excited enough to flip his trips 7s before I can act, I probably don't show.
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02-01-2018 , 11:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regwill7
H utg1 $185 w/ KQo; V1 BB $320; V2 MP $19; V3 Btn $28

H limps KQo; V2 all in for $19; V1&3 call and H calls

Main Pot is $72 on flop of Qs7d3c
V1 checks and H bets $15; V3 folds and V1 raises to $30; H calls

Side pot is $60 on turn of Kh
V1 checks and H bets $45; V1 calls

Side pot is $150 on river of 7s
V1 jams all in for H remaining stack of $90

Board reads Qs 7d 3c Kh 7s. H has played with V1 often and has a solid read that V1 is a bad reg.

Any feedback on the line I chose up to this point? Does H call or fold river?
Don't limp pre. As played I'd consider LRR to get HU against the all in guy.

Flop is bad. I'm all for small sizes, but 15 into 72 is just not even a real bet. They can call you here profitably w/ any gutter, any pair, etc. Stick a real bet in (35-40). Preferably w/ an SPR of 2.3 like we have here, I'd rather bet 45 and jam turn. Don't overthink the fact that you'll be betting stronger ranges here thanks to the AI guy, they'll call.

As played, I can go either way between calling and reraising.

As played, I still think your turn sizing is too small, but not by much. I might have gone 80.

As played, you have one of the stronger hands you'll ever show up with and getting 2.5:1. I'd call, not be happy, expect to see a 7 but win sometimes.
Huge River Decision 1/2 Quote
02-05-2018 , 05:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorn7
AQ, QJ, QT, Q9, smaller pp. The problem is that the river card is a great one to bluff and the combined pots are too big for you to fold. That is a combo for you to go broke no matter how you play it.

Mark this guy as an awful player (or at least watch him)...his turn call is atrocious.


awful


your problem is here: Main Pot is $72 on flop of Qs7d3c
V1 checks and H bets $15; V3 folds and V1 raises to $30; H calls


you shoulda jammed
Huge River Decision 1/2 Quote
02-05-2018 , 07:13 AM
KQo plays better as a raise preflop particularly at < 100 BB.

After limping and getting shoved on by short stacks a back raise is in order.

After flatting and seeing flop you has $166 behind and pot is $72. Any reasonable bet here sets you up for a shove on favourable turns or, viewed pessimistically, sets up an awkward SPR on river if you don't shove the turn. Therefore I'd bet sufficient that I can ship the turn if I want without it being an overbet. $40 leaves us a bet of $126 into $152 on the turn. I wouldn't go less than that myself.

As played with the tiny $15 flop bet and facing the min-raise: it's a strange spot you've put yourself in. You've got to put V1 on a range and play accordingly. You look like you have a mediocre pair that you want to get HU with the short stack and see if it's good. At best I guess V puts you on weak QX but more likely a small pocket pair or 7X. Therefore he will raise with QX, sets and possibly some of his weaker pairs to either get value or to get a cheap fold to see if his pair can beat the short stack HU.

I imagine V1 would have raised AQ+JJ+ preflop so it's likely you beat all his QX. Therefore you've only got to worry about his sets. With so many pairs you beat in his range vs only 6 sets you are definitely in value territory here so I think you have to 3bet the flop before any scare cards to his QX/99/88/7X come on the turn (A K J).

Because of the low SPR any raise is committing and V should read even a click-back as an all in if he's a reg (even a bad one). Therefore a shove actually looks weakest because the sizing can be expected to generate maximum number of folds. I'd 3bet-jam this flop.

Having called the flop X/r and been checked to on the turn I would jam the turn for the same reasons as above: perceived fold equity of the biggest possible bet makes it the weakest looking bet at this point and it gets the most value from worse. We certainly think we're ahead 100% on the turn after V checks of course.

Having bet $45 on turn, got called and then faced a small jam on the river I snap call 100% of the time due to good pot odds and fact V should basically never have anything but QX we beat here.
Huge River Decision 1/2 Quote
02-06-2018 , 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrubyKGB
To start things off you shouldn't be limping utg with anything. The flop is an easy bet but $15 isn't nearly enough.I'd go between $50-pot. As played I call and jam turn. The river is a call but we're only in that spot due to poor decisions leading up to it.
WHy would you jam the turn? Please explain.
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