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Old 10-21-2017, 04:41 PM   #1
JDT123
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Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

Thoughts on this hand from last night's 1-1 game please guys? Game was 1/1 but most players straddling so game was basically 1-1-2, or higher at times. BBs relate to 1/1 though so 50bb = 50.

Hero Young, Reg ish. Deemed as solid by most at the table. Other regs were discussing a hand I 'played well' last week (I bluff 4! pre with 78ss and two other regs I have history with folded), so despite having little history with villains in this hand they know I'm capable of making big plays, they also know I'm a decent player for the stakes. Probably seen as more loose aggressive, but not overly so. Covers villains

Villain 1 (BTN) Seemed like a straight forward player but on the Nit/Rock side of things, did see him make a loose river calls incorrectly against his friend though. Seemed ABC, but not particularly good. 500bbs

Villain 2 (SB) Spent the whole night saying he could put up 1k if he wanted to and that he doesn't care about the game, bought in for the minimum and doubled up recently in a straightforward hand. 95bbs

THE HAND

PRE FLOP
Hero straddles to 2bbs, 5 callers, Sb and BB complete and hero checks his option with K5cc. This wasn'tt the type of table to squeeze to 25, trust me...

THE FLOP [16]: As5s6h
Checks to V1 on the button who bets 8. V2 calls and I call. All others fold.

THE TURN [40]: 5d
Absolute gin card for me. I lead straight out for 24 expecting all Aces and draws to call also planning on getting it in against V2 and value betting most rivers if called. Also donk the turn with some Aces for balance but not too worried about that at these stakes or at this game.

V1 near min raises to 50, and the SB jams for 85 total. All options are open to me (and villain if I decide to flat) but after a few minutes of tanking I finally decide on a fold.

Thoughts? Will post results on my turn thought processes and so on after some discussion/comments.

Thanks
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Old 10-21-2017, 05:11 PM   #2
CWsports
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

fold flop
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Old 10-21-2017, 05:14 PM   #3
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

Fold flop.
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Old 10-21-2017, 05:26 PM   #4
JDT123
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

Folding flop definitely the safest play, but not sure its the best. I'm 50/50 on a call/fold, don't mind either
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Old 10-21-2017, 09:49 PM   #5
matzah_ball
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

Obvious fold on flop

Obvious call now
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Old 10-21-2017, 10:21 PM   #6
GenghisKhan
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

Raise preflop. If you don't have the nerves then fold on the flop. Why even call on the flop? - I don't get it.

Limping, checking and calling will not put money in your stack. You may win or lose here and there but the end result will be a negative amount of the rake per hour of about $10-$12
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Old 10-21-2017, 10:23 PM   #7
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

I'm confused as to why this hands even posted. Fold flop. As played fist pump and get it in. Why did you call flop if not to hit a K or Zomg a 5. If you lose that's pretty good reinforcement of why you should fold flop. Lmfao at calling flop with bottom pair turning triplets and folding when chips start flying though. Seriously I find it hard to believe your (decent for the stakes). DUCY
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:28 AM   #8
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

calling flop would be not completely terrible HU or IP, but yeah fold flop. SB makes this hand weird given stacks, he can reship so yeah sad fold turn because of roi, mightve been a marginal call down if SB had 75 (no 4b avail to btn)
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Old 10-22-2017, 05:44 AM   #9
ROBUSTO8
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

Gonna sound like a broken record but, fold flop. Getting it in on the turn though as played, you block A5s, 56s, you beat any other 5x, only thing I'd really be worried about is V1 with pocket 66.
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Old 10-22-2017, 08:26 AM   #10
JDT123
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

Thanks for the feedback guys I did have a backdoor flush draw though which I got wrong in the original post, but still swaying towards fold though

Quote:
Originally Posted by NutJob72 View Post
Seriously I find it hard to believe your (decent for the stakes). DUCY
I have the stats to prove this over enough hours, but I also admit I don't play every hand perfectly, this being one of the more questionable hands; thus why myself and thousands of others use this sight. I do appreciate your feedback though.


As played hero folded, BTN showed 66 and SB showed 45

Last edited by JDT123; 10-22-2017 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 10-22-2017, 08:37 AM   #11
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

reallly looks like V1 might have 56, 66, or A6. but folding is too weak.

call the 85 and re-eval river. I would call up to 100 on the river.

More than that and V1 has you beat.
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Old 10-22-2017, 08:41 AM   #12
JDT123
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunkaliscious View Post
reallly looks like V1 might have 56, 66, or A6. but folding is too weak.

call the 85 and re-eval river. I would call up to 100 on the river.

More than that and V1 has you beat.
Aside from folding this was my closest second option whilst tanking. The fact he can 4! in this spot put me off though as I already had a read he was strong given the fact he had barely raised previously. After the hand he said had I called he would have called the turn and then jammed the river, would be around a pot sized jam so makes sense

I agree folding is weak, but I also don't like raising or calling, thus why I decided on a fold even after basically floating the flop and hitting gin. I think this spot is really interesting if people really think about it
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Old 10-22-2017, 08:57 AM   #13
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDT123 View Post
Thanks for the feedback guys I did have a backdoor flush draw though which I got wrong in the original post, but still swaying towards fold though

I have the stats to prove this over enough hours, but I also admit I don't play every hand perfectly, this being one of the more questionable hands; thus why myself and thousands of others use this sight. I do appreciate your feedback though.


As played hero folded, BTN showed 66 and SB showed 45
I apologize that was a little jerky on my part. Came out worse than I meant it too.
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Old 10-22-2017, 09:01 AM   #14
JDT123
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NutJob72 View Post
I apologize that was a little jerky on my part. Came out worse than I meant it too.
It's cool, this isn't my brightest moment poker wise so don't worry about it haha
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:13 AM   #15
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

You could arguably continue on something like a Qh6c5s flop. Where you've got a BDFD and your 2 pair outs are relatively clean. In the flop you got, the ace and the front door flush draw just give you so much more RIO when you bink.

(Qh6c5s would be marginal at best and the flop you got was considerably worse)

Probably call the turn as played and x/eval river, depends on what 5x BTN can have and sounds like he never goes nuts with worse than our hand.

Would like an invite to games with SB.
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:23 AM   #16
JDT123
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

I did have the BDFD on flop I made a mistake on the original post and it won't let me edit, was posting the hand mostly to discuss the turn but I see why people are focussing a lot of the flop.

SB was indeed a donkey and I wasn't concerned about him at all, turns out I was drawing dead against the BTN
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:31 AM   #17
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

If the flop was As5s6c, the problems include the Ks brings in the flush draw and the other Kings could cost you a lot of money against A6 and A5. So the arguments for continuing on the flop are super thin OOP because your outs aren't that exciting overall.
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:34 AM   #18
JDT123
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

I'm 50/50 tbh, don't like or hate the flop call. Was hoping for more discussion on the turn and not the flop but I guess it's to be expected. Thanks for the feedback, turns out I made a monster fold at the right time so I'm happy about that
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:45 AM   #19
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

you correctly counted the number of 5's in the deck. you have to ask yourself would SB go nuts w/o a 5 and what 5's could BTN have here and how will he play them (and, of course, 66,AK). Turn seems fine AP, b/c might have been better.
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:51 AM   #20
JDT123
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Re: Huge fold or gigantic loss of value?

Wasn't worried about SB at all, he jams most Aces and draws in that spot. I briefly considered him to have the case 5 which partially led to the fold.

I didn't think the button would raise the turn with A6, any other A, or combo draws like 78cc ect, which let only really 66 for pure nutted hands. Maybe also A5 if the SB is going crazy with a combo Draw or ace himself
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