I had KQs UTG and opened to 11 at 1/2 NL; (250 behind); One call from LP (tilting opponent wide wide range) (190 behind); SB player new to the table 3!'s 22 more; (Don't think he is getting out of line here, 3bets at these stakes are usually very strong hands, he doesn't seem like the LAG type and he is doing this out of the SB so not a position where he's going to have a wide 3! imo;


Anyways when I do the math...25*22=550; I can clearly see that this is a fold based on the rule because we do not have enough IO to call here based on my opponents stack sizes; however this isn't 67s or 910s this is KQs , so my question is how can we account for our SC's being stronger than average; how would we factor this into the equation? in this spot I'm putting SB on nutted range so I like my fold but had it not been a nutted range I'm curious as to what math I should be doing pre-flop to justify a call.

Let me know what you think, Thanks

This is a slam dunk 3-bet defense. You are in position and like you said this isn’t a low suited connector. You don’t need to flop a flush to win. Flopping a K or Q could be good.


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KQs should be towards the bottom of your UTG range, so with these stacks and a V who you believe isn't getting out of line I think folding is fine. Given that you have position and the 3! sizing is pretty small though, I'd call in-game and see a flop.

If it had folded to SB and you were heads-up, this is a really marginal spot and call or fold is fine. I'm rarely folding here, but I don't think it's terrible to fold as an UTG opener getting 3b OOP. The price you're getting from 3b can work against you considering your range is pretty tight. You're going to be playing against a lot of QQ+ and AQ+ here which your hand performs terribly against.

With the LP likely to flat behind and the 3b, again, being small, I'm more likely to call. You have position on the 3b'er, you're likely far ahead of the LP caller and you just need to be ready to fold your hand before you commit too much more. If the board comes K74r and you call a bet, you have to be prepared to fold to pretty much any bet on the turn.

So yeah, I'd call here too against all but the nittiest of players. With it being an unknown I'll assume he's closer to nitty than otherwise, so I'm going to be super careful postflop.

I'll go against the grain and say I think this is ok to fold. If we're going with our read that this dude isn't a LAG and he isn't 3betting with a wide range, to me that 3bet range can be pretty accurately defined at these stakes as QQ+/AK.

Even if we can count on the bad V to come along with a range full of trash, I think we're at such a massive equity disadvantage vs. the 3bettor that we should let this go.

Edit: I should say that I think this is a fold based on stack depth - if we were substantially deeper, I think defending this becomes more palatable. But as is, we are going to be going to the flop with a significant range disadvantage that faces dominance issues in a pot with an SPR of less than 3. I pass.

thanks for the responses, I definitely put this guy on QQ+/AK; most of these players at these stakes "hate pocket jacks" , they simply won't be 3betting JJ in this spot very often so I have to factor in RIO, The way i see it is that i need to make 2 pair or better or else im going to have to fold on the flop, the SB would have around a pot size bet left if i call and he is shipping most flops here; My IO are better than it seems pf bc the player behind is certainly calling with a very wide range that I play well against; however i will make 2 pair or better around 10% of the time so I like my fold , especially considering the fact that the SB shoved dark on the flop lol and ended up having AA, don't want to be results oriented but this does confirm the range that i put him on.


I am just curious about the math but i guess i could plug in my opponents' ranges and see how my hand performs against the ranges but the RIO have to be factored in bc me flopping top pair against the SB's range is terrible for me so it feels like it looks like an easy call on the surface but there is surely better spots to look for , and I am the farthest thing from a nit but I actually love my fold here, if he was deeper then i probably would have called tbh;

How do i mathematically factor in RIO? The equity calculator pf is assuming that we all see the whole board which is simply not going to happen very often

You can use Flopzilla to see equity on the flop, turn and river. If you are absolutely sure that he has QQ+, AK, you still have 12% equity on the flop. Live, sometimes based on how people raise, you can fold, as they seem to have a very strong hand. Otherwise, I prefer to call and see the flop. Against weaker players, there are still plenty of chances to outplay and realize more than 12%, especially in position.

In this case, KQs is no better than any other suited connecter

^
Agree. If pairing one of your hole cards will not make the best hand, then I'd fold. Vs. the range of QQ+/AK KQs is an ez fold, albeit frustrating.

KQs is actually worse than, say, 87s if you're putting someone on a premium range due to the higher chance of being dominated.

If you give the V AK+, QQ+, then KQs has 25.1% equity while 87s has 30.8%.
If you put the V on AQ+, JJ+, then KQs goes up 29.3% while 87s improves to 32.4%.

It makes intuitive sense. Don't play KQ if you're up against AK and AQ but not KJ and QJ.