HAHAHAHA and i love it. Ruthless. But you know what, wont be folding anymore hands face up!

Also when i mention pain, i mean that some people seem to be addicted to the pain of calling with the second best hand or close to it. Knowing they are beat and just calling anyway.

Maybe the math and his range say i shouldn't call and i understand the long run reasoning for calling when the math says call. But to me there was no way he didnt have me beat. And i didn;t know this pre flop as well as i did after he called my flop bet and then led turn...

Also i dont think i am that good, i think i have the ability to learn and get better, hence why i am here

Stacks don't look to be mentioned, but I'm typically just folding preflop and moving on. We're fairly easily dominated with hands that raise OOP from the blinds unless villain is more active than most.

I probably consider checking behind on the flop. Apart from the flush draw (he's raising non-A suited cards out of the blinds?), we're WA/WB here. We're highly unlikely to get 3 streets of value from worse hands (unless he's raising AT- from the blinds and unlucky enough to have the two remaining Aces in the deck hit the flop). I show weakness on the flop and then call two streets worth of betting (or make the bets myself).

As played (i.e. betting the flop), I also check behind on the turn. Again, very unlikely to get 3 streets of value from a worse hand, so I'm happy with getting two (and a weak looking check on the turn will get that).

I think we have to call the river. We're getting decent odds and we underrepped our hand (which is fine) on the turn.

Unless I get some sorta prize for showing my hand, I would never do so here. (what was the point?)

GcluelessNLnoobG

Atrocious fold.

The key here is why exactly did you show then? Is it an ego thing? If so, it's important to remember that we really should be playing for money, not to be respected as a good player. So unless we're trying to advertise, we shouldn't be doing this.

You can often get villain to show or at least tell you his hand by simply saying

"Wow, I guess you really have the ace right?" They'll show, or if they take a few seconds to tell you their hand you know they're lying about whatever they said.

So if your read is that solid and you think this is a good fold, you just fold. If he flips over no pair you just laugh.

Folding face-up is debatable. The fact that opponent showed makes it fine. I find it usually helps my table image to absolutely soul-read someone. People don't want to mess with you after you show them that you're capable of something they could never imagine. They also like to donate their monies to you after.

The key to the hand is the flop c/c after being the PFR.

Reasons this isn't a horrible fold:
- raise pre-flop, c/c flop, ck turn, donk river is the stereotypical LLSNL donk "I have a monster" line
- he checked the flop. why do we think he's leading river with a 2 pair hand he didn't cbet when the board goes brick brick? the board on the river is essentially the same as the board on the flop.
- if he thinks JJ is good, then he's putting us on either a smaller pair or a missed draw. if he's thinking about this, then he's going to check instead of bet, since we're going to bluff more often than we call with worse, and we're going to raise him and make him sad he bet.
- it's very unlikely he's bluffing the river. if he has missed clubs, wouldn't he cbet those? he is the PFR, so AK/AQ/AT/TT are all well within his range and make a lot more sense than any other holdings.
- this line makes almost no sense for KK-JJ. checking flop and donking river after the draw misses is just weird for a bluff-catcher on this board.

Yes, folding with this strong and under-repped of a hand is a mistake in general. Calling for pot odds because of the absolute value of your hand is also a mistake in general.

Good "instinct" moment by folding when you KNEW you were beat. That happens a lot, and I agree that sometimes you just know you're beat but you call anyway, and that sucks. However, with AJo in the bb and the sb raising it to $12, I think calling there is bad. Either re-pop it to $30 and see how strong his hand really is, or just fold and see the next hand. AJ is a sucker hand that will make you go broke quick.

The biggest mistake you made in this hand was actually showing your fold. What possessed you to do that? What were you hoping to accomplish? I can only assume that you wanted to show off that you had a good read on him and that you can make a big laydown. But that's information you've now given the entire table, and that's going to cost you money. NEVER show your cards. It's always better to laugh inside and keep them guessing.

Respectfully, I completely disagree with this. IMHO, the range of a typical SB raiser behind a few limpers is comparable to the raising range of a LP bettor. Moreover, the fewer the limpers, the wider the SB's range is. Here, with only 2 limpers showing interest in the pot, I think the SB's pre-flop raising range looks something like 77+, A9+, and any two Broadway cards.

That is why I also disagree with the fold on the river. Given the lines taken here, the SB's range can easily include a lot of underpairs to an ace. I would make this call and not lose any sleep about paying off a better ace.

As always, you might need to adjust your estimate of a particular player's raising range based on a few repeated observations of that player's tendencies over the course of a session. However, as a general proposition, I would have to assess a player as a complete nit before I assumed that his raising range out of the SB and behind only 2 limpers to be tighter than an UTG raiser.

I had a tight image at the table. People were playing at me with good hands to try and catch me. I made the lay down face up to let him and everyone else know, I know what youre doing and it wont work.

Now at this point forward i will probably never do this again. It's dumb and i see. But if you want my explanation, that is it. Also i wanted to see if i was right and the only way i could think of was to show my hand. Especially since it was the first hand i had shown all night. I normally never show hands.

Nice fold but pre is a Raise unopened but still a fold in position vs a std range if already raised bcause of rio

I don't know what games you play in, but lets think about this logically.

We have a random rec player (lets assume). They have a hand like 88, QJ, AT etc in the sb.

Are they thinking:

1) I can raise to punish these limpers. Even if I don't hit I can probably barrel them off when scare cards come. Plus my AT/QJ makes 1 pair hands that will be hard to play OOP in a multiway pot.

2) If I raise, what happens if someone reraises! I won't be able to hit A88 or QQJ hand and it would really suck not to see the flop. Plus every time I raise I never hit anyway and these stupid fish suck out on me.

Because IMO 2 is much, much more likely than 1.

What a horrible horrible fold...

Yes, you happened to run into the very top of his range and made yourself look like a genius.

Funny if he turned over 99 and all of sudden you looked like an idiot.

The games I play in have players who don't take position into account too much and overvalue pocket pairs and Ax hands. They are raising marginal hands OOP in the blinds against 1 or 2 limpers because they want to end the hand right then and there rather than play after the flop. The raise is less about a plan for how to play the hand after the flop then it is about not having to play it after the flop at all.

In any event, my main observation is that the raising range out of the SB by a typical low-stakes player is not, as someone suggested, tighter than his UTG raising range, particularly if there are only 1 or 2 limpers in the hand. Under those circumstances, I would gauge the SB's raising range to be roughly equivalent to his opening raising range in LP. I would adjust my estimate of his range based upon my observations of his playing profile during the session and the number of players already in the pot at the time of raise.

We can disagree about what the precise contours of raising range is, but I hope that we can agree that, whatever the range is, it is not smaller than what it takes a typical low-stakes player to raise UTG.