$1/2 Wednesday evening game

V ($250) unknown to H, I assume he's an ABC rec player but I don't know him and in the 1/2 hr I've been at the table that's the best I can come up with.

H ($350) probably a slightly LAG image if V is paying attention. But I don't think he is and I haven't shown down a hand yet.

H straddles on the button for $5. SB calls, BB calls, V makes it $15 in MP, folds to H who flats w/ 77. SB & BB fold.

Flop ($36)
7c7d6d

V bets $40, H flats (no tanking or sighing, just flats)

Turn ($115)
6c
V checks, H? Check or bet and if bet how much? V can have all the over pairs + AK or maybe AQ. He has $200 behind.

80

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What kind of a ****** would check quads?
You wanna get that stack in on river. Checking isn't doing that.

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Are we basing how stupid you are on this hand? Or just in general?

Bet $55 OTT and jam the river if called. I understand the temptation to check back here, but I think we're better off just firing away. The only time checking nets us anything is if he has overs and hits something on the river. If he has an overpair he will call. If you check and he makes some stupid blocker bet on the river that you jam over the jig is up and he folds. He may still call with an A on this turn. I want to make a big but callable turn bet that sets up a reasonable river jam.

Great question, how about dealers choice on this one?

I bet small here, perhaps 40 or 50, which overpairs will call and you may even get AK or AQ to call.

Grunch based on title alone: 'bout tree fiddy.

Bet 50 so you can ship 150 in 215 on river.

And that's when I noticed V wasn't a poker player at all, it was that damn loch ness monster...

So that didn't take long. I bet $50, to size a reasonable river shove and V folded. Wanted to make sure I didn't over or under think this. Thanks.

If they don't have a hand, we are not get paid any more no matter what.

And when we have quads, it's harder for them to have a hand.

I think it's fine.

You played well. It's very difficult to get paid with quads, especially top quads, but at least you put yourself in a position where you have a chance of making money, however slim that chance may be.

Your bet can get called by overpairs and Ace highs.

I agree that this is "normally" a smallish bet to get in OTR. However, you say V is ABC and that you have a LAG image.

I will assume your reads are correct, this makes it a check for me. You've got quads and V is never spring up here with a straight flush draw OTT.

Check turn intending to spazz river and abuse that lag image. Any bet from V OTR is an easy raise. If he folds you still get another bet from him.

Also next time, please tank when you flop quads and face a bet. Doesn't have to be full Hollywood but at least act like you considered here might have a better hand.

Just bet 55-65 and hope he has TT+ and calls down.

Put me in the check turn camp. When V checked turn, he's either pot controlling with over pairs/AX and putting H on some 7X or 6X type hands or drawing hoping to see a free river so you have to underplay your hand (by checking).

If you bet, you either get a call on turn and then a river fold, or turn fold as in this case. Betting turn and shoving river to preflop raiser is a very strong play. Rarely will you get 2 more streets of value from a competent V. If you check, it increases the likelihood of a river call with over pair or even AX curious calls, possibly induce bluffs from V since turn play was weak, and also gives V a chance to improve to monsters with straight or flush draws or 2-outer fullhouses (the only way a competent V will stack off river).

If V is a disbelieving calling station, then betting turn + river is okay too, though a V that doesn't think you have it would have bet the turn + river himself for value from draws/pocket pairs.

It's hard to get value from flopped quads as you lock up the flop pretty tightly. Unlikely to get paid unless V is given a chance to improve.

you rarely get paid off flopping big hands like this, dont worry about it

When I put villains on a mediocre range vs mine, I try take them to value town. Here any over pair here should be scared of a naked 7. I under bet $25 For a multitude of reasons.

A. It's hard to lay down over pairs but it makes it easier to do on a wet board when you are facing losing your entire stack.
B. People still love AA & KK. Putting a mere $25 into an $80 pot is cheap enough to entice them to set hunt / stay in love with their high cards.
C. If cheap enough people will donate money to you just to see your cards. I'll often throw $5 on the turn and river of I have a read that they are drawing dead and know it. If the pot is over $200 and I know they missed their river draw, I'll bet $25 just to get something extra out of them. It works a lot imo.

This. I mean you could lead for some stupid amount like $30 but it was just more than likely V had air and was stabbing so it didn't matter. Generally we should try to size monsters against the best part of V's ranges so that we maximize when they have it. If they are weak, it really isn't going to matter what we do...we won't make crap.

What do you think of my response above yours

So i would say it is fine provided that you have the board absolutely locked (like this hand). I don't like underbetting for value when my hand is even semi-vulnerable because all it takes is one bad river card to wipe out say 10 other hands where I played this way and made a bit more. Additionally, at these limits, so many players overvalue 1 pair (especially AA/KK) that you can still get the same % of calls with a larger bet size so sometimes you will cost yourself $ by using a milking strategy.

I guess bottom line is that over many hours of play, I think your betting strategy will lose $$ versus one that assumes V's ranges are strong enough to call larger bets. But now and then, especially if you have a specific read (like in C above), then it is fine.

Thanks,


I agree that my line probably leaves money on the table. But I've never been one to over shove but I get the profitability.

This. Next hand.

I wouldn’t bet 50 or more on the turn. That’s a line I take when I want villain to fold. Villain will c-bet the flop, I call with a wide range to take it away when he checks turn with almost all air. I think TT+ keeps betting.

Even 1-2 NL players realize hands like AK and AQ that missed are weak hands when there is only 1 card left. Opponents I’ve seen tighten up on the turn and river when their hand has less of a chance to improve and the bets get to $50 or more.

I just check hoping he bets river or hits something he is willing to call with. You’re almost never getting his stack and you get that stack less often when he folds turn. But maybe you can get another decent sized bet or call out of him.