How to stack this OMC? - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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How to stack this OMC?

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07-16-2019 , 04:20 PM

JonPM

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 78

Live cash game $5/$5, $300-600 buy in. I just bought in about 5 mins ago for $600. Don't have many reads.

OMC older than dirt UTG, has about $1k, raises to $40 (average raise in this game $20-30)
Folds to hero on BTN with AsQc, we flat
Blinds fold
Flop: KcJc3c
OMC leads with $75, pot now $165
Hero calls
Turn: 10d
Villian leads $150 (does so somewhat aggressively seemingly to get me off a flush draw)
Hero?

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07-16-2019 , 07:12 PM

rainbow57

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 668

Seems like a trivial jam. I can't imagine doing anything else, and to top it off we don't have the A

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07-16-2019 , 07:32 PM

hyperknit

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 2,692

fold pre

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07-17-2019 , 12:19 AM

hitchens97

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,455

If he's really OMC, then this is an easy peasy fold pre, since this is QQ+, and perhaps occasionally AK.

As played jam, because he has no made flush on this board assuming you are right and he is OMC. You may get call from KK or AcKx.

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07-17-2019 , 12:45 AM

Minatorr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 5,235

Obv fold pre... esp vs that ridiculous sizing

Shoving seems fine

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07-17-2019 , 01:18 AM

Tanqueray

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,689

Min raise and not even close.

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07-17-2019 , 01:37 AM

hitchens97

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,455

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tanqueray

Min raise and not even close.

No. Just no. Min raise prices sets in and Ac with only the barest minimum of implied odds.

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07-17-2019 , 01:42 AM

hitchens97

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,455

BTW - just re-reading your post. If you just bought in 5mins ago, how do you know he's an OMC, or have you played with him before?

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07-17-2019 , 01:52 AM

krilleater

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 666

$450

If we jam, I think he finds a fold with his sets.

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07-17-2019 , 02:38 AM

#10

Tanqueray

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,689

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitchens97

No. Just no. Min raise prices sets in and Ac with only the barest minimum of implied odds.

$415 with $185 behind.

Priced in? Implied odds?

Does anyone actually extract value in these threads or just try to fold out smallest part of V's range?

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07-17-2019 , 02:39 AM

#11

Tanqueray

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,689

Quote:

Originally Posted by krilleater

$450

If we jam, I think he finds a fold with his sets.

Bet $485 V find's a fold, but at $450 V calls?

I mean...do you guys even math?

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07-17-2019 , 03:57 AM

#12

QuantumSurfer

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,987

For future reference, no super old dude at the Gardens is an actual OMC, especially the Russian one who everyone pegs as a nit even though he has a literal notebook scattered with punts. As for the hand, no OMC folds after bombing two streets. Also agreed with above posters that our AQo falls far behind an OMC EP opening range, especially to 8x.

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07-17-2019 , 04:18 AM

#13

DK Barrel

Concept of the Week author

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 6,797

I think everyone forgot we are only $600 effective.

Easy jam turn.

Preflop can be a fold if V truly is that tight, but without any reads other than he seems old you should call. Way too early to know his preflop range precisely enough to fold AQ on the button to a single raise.

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07-17-2019 , 05:46 AM

#14

venice10

Referee

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 25,855

If (and this is a big if since you've only seen him play 5 minutes) he's an OMC, pf is an easy fold. He has QQ+, AK only. Flop is also a fold. He wouldn't bomb the flop without a minimum of TPTK. If he has the nut flush draw, you have 0 outs. If he doesn't have Ac, he's never going to pay you off when the 4th club comes.

The odds of your read being bad are fairly good though. Even so, he's making PSB. I don't think you get paid off if the fourth club comes. He's fully aware you can have a FD.

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07-17-2019 , 10:54 AM

#15

JonPM

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 78

My bad, should have been more descriptive. My 5min read on villain as OMC comes from A) he's old af, and B) he's literally holding a free white plastic lid styrofoam'ed cup of coffee.

Spoiler:

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07-17-2019 , 01:41 PM

#16

hitchens97

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,455

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonPM

My bad, should have been more descriptive. My 5min read on villain as OMC comes from A) he's old af, and B) he's literally holding a free white plastic lid styrofoam'ed cup of coffee.

Spoiler:

Ok. So omc visibly, but nothing to back up what he plays like. I feel this is like the 10th thread in the last few months where someone has labeled someone OMC who is not actually OMC.

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07-17-2019 , 02:24 PM

#17

JonPM

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitchens97

Ok. So omc visibly, but nothing to back up what he plays like. I feel this is like the 10th thread in the last few months where someone has labeled someone OMC who is not actually OMC.

Don't always have the luxury of playing with someone for hours to get an accurate read. Sometimes all you got is your first impression and gut. This is what I had at the time so felt relevant to put it in my post.

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07-17-2019 , 03:39 PM

#18

Spanishmoon

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,518

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitchens97

Ok. So omc visibly, but nothing to back up what he plays like. I feel this is like the 10th thread in the last few months where someone has labeled someone OMC who is not actually OMC.

Exactly! The old bluffers ITF will hopefully age gracefully and healthily to become OMC bluffers 😉

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07-17-2019 , 03:47 PM

#19

hitchens97

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,455

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonPM

Completely get that, so label him old guy, not OMC. Sorry to come off harsh but people have dropped into a habit of calling every old guy an OMC, and yours is not as egregious as others, but I'm finding it frustrating.

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07-17-2019 , 04:37 PM

#20

JonPM

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitchens97

Noted, but in my defense he is literally physically OMC

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07-17-2019 , 06:19 PM

#21

venice10

Referee

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 25,855

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonPM

Noted, but in my defense he is literally physically OMC

Only thing to make him a perfect OMC would be if the hand took place befroe 5 pm.

Fair enough read this time though.

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07-17-2019 , 09:46 PM

#22

krilleater

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 666

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tanqueray

Bet $485 V find's a fold, but at $450 V calls?

I mean...do you guys even math?

I missed that OP only had $600, thought we were $1k effective.

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07-18-2019 , 12:22 PM

#23

Tintinpoker

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 318

All-in on turn.
We don't want to see a card that will block the action or scare him on the river. There are many.
We also don't want him to draw the a boat or the nut flush (even if his sizing indicates he doesn't have the Ac).
Shove.

If the stack sizes were bigger, I'd do 2/3 pot on the turn to setup a shove on the river.

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07-18-2019 , 12:46 PM

#24

Tanqueray

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,689

Keep in mind that the goal is to "stack" OMC, or to extract as much value as possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tintinpoker

All-in on turn.
We don't want to see a card that will block the action or scare him on the river. There are many.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tintinpoker

We also don't want him to draw the a boat or the nut flush (even if his sizing indicates he doesn't have the Ac).

If the read is that V does not have Ac, then V is essentially drawing to 4 or 10 outs.

And if the read is that V is afraid of the flush draw, there is probably higher chance that V does not have a set, given that set can obviously improve much easier.

So if that's indeed your read, how would shove be the best line to extract value?

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07-18-2019 , 12:59 PM

#25

shantideva

banned

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 203

I know how insanely tight OMCs can play, but I disagree with arbitrarily folding pre. In position with this hand, should be worth taking a flop. The only reason not to would not be because he is OMC, but because he is OMC and the abnormally large size. As played, I’d call and get it in on the river. My experience is these guys just keep firing with the types of hands we put him on here.

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