Quote:
Originally Posted by CoranMoran
This confuses me.
Isn't one of the goals of this game to maximize your profits when you have the best hand?
If this hand were to somehow get checked down the rest of the way, and one opponent showed QQ while the other showed a missed Flush Draw, I just lost a bunch of value. I would consider that a big fail.
Why? Please explain.
If I call the flop raise.
And the turn gets checked through.
And the Flush hits the river.
And CO got there because I failed to protect.
That feels like a fail.
The concept of "mixing up your play" seems much less relevant in a low-stakes game in Vegas where players are rarely paying attention and are often getting up and leaving within the hour.
This is a 1-3 game: the lowest game in the room.
You all know how loosely these players call.
There are a lot of worse hands that would call a flop 3bet.
So I don't believe the rationale of "not being able to win more value" applies here.
But being out of position, it sounds like giving up value and pot controlling may be the more prudent option?
--cm
Some points to consider:
- it is also one of our goals to minimize our losses when we don't have the best hand; it's a constant battle between that and maximizing our profit with the best of it, so sometimes the inbetween line is prudent with marginal hands that may be either (also keeps in line with the "small hand, small pot; big hand, big pot" idea)
- I have no idea how Vegas games play, but the thought that "no one is paying attention" is absurd; you'll rarely play with anyone that fits that description
- one of the reasons I might mix up my game here and consider checking the flop is that I have zero clue who I'm playing with; is he the tightest nit in the game? is he the loosest maniac? we have no idea; so I'd simply rather have a little bit of a better idea before getting on to playing for stacks
- again, this may really depend on who you think you are playing, but his flat on the flop is *very* strong; the preflop raiser raised out of the blinds (strong), continued betting into multiple players (strong), got raised by the shortstack (which re-opens the betting), and yet he is still ok with taking a raise cold to the face with us possibly reraising; if he's the worst player in the room, fine, he can have a draw here; otherwise, the chances of him chasing a draw here drop substantially
- when you have a value hand, there are two ways to get value: one is by betting and getting called by worse, and the other is by checking and having someone bluff air or overvalue worse; if you're up against a passive ABC face up calling station, you'll probably want to lean to the former method; otherwise, the latter method is fine too (or a mix of both); readless, I would attempt to get to showdown for as cheap as possible for now until I have a much better idea of who I am dealing with
- we have to be careful to not go overboard regarding "protecting our overpair"; we only got in 5% of stacks preflop, so we can't just hurp durp stack off against most otherwise we gave too good of IO for people to call our raise preflop; and this is straight out of HOC (which, admittedly, some may consider outdated), in with regards to draws he only has a draw + actually hits his draw a very small percentage of the time, so don't go overboard protecting against it versus hurp durping our stack in / making the pot too large for our marginal hand
Just things to consider.
GcluelessNLnoobG