got stuck in a 2/5 game with a bunch of very nitty OMCs. hero has been at the table for about 45 minutes and was the most active.

$500 effective

OMC raises to 20 from MP
SB Calls
Hero in the BB Calls with A2hh.


Flop ($55): Jh 8h 6s


SB Checks. hero checks.

OMC: Bets $75

SB fold.

Hero?

my thoughts is that OMC is trying to protect his hand from all the draws. I have no reason to believe his range is anything other than the typical OMC range of JJ+ and maybe Ace king. (maybe should just be folding preflop?)

how do we proceed against this very large C-bet?

call/check turn

Pre flop call is pretty borderline.

This is an extremely rare occurrence where I fold the NFD on the flop. If our reads are correct, we only have an A out vs QQ and KK, we're getting a horrible price, have no fold equity if we raise, we are out of position, and it's highly unlikely we get villain's stack if we hit our flush or our A that has a 1/3 chance of not even being an out.

Fold pre. Why are you calling with the worst A in the game vs an OMC?

What are the odds of flopping a FD?
What are the odds of turning a flush?
What are the odds of turning a flush over flush?

These are major leaks that the majority of low stakes players have and is compounded by playing bad cards against tight players. Limping is a different story but you are OOP and likely to be destroyed here preflop.

As played his flop bet is actually very good - something you don't see a lot in even mid stakes. His overbet is pricing out almost all flush draws except for the nut FD and combo draws but bad players would still call here. His overbet is also telling me he probably has an overpair and not a set. You chose to play a speculative hand and hit a dream flop and yet you are still in a awkward position which reinforces folding pre. I would gamble and shove knowing what he has and knowing he is almost certainly going to call. With the money in the pot its closer to a 50/50 than a 45/55. I hate calling big bets and then giving up. If we think there is even a 5% chance we think he will fold to a jam the odds go in our favor.

Option #2 is min raising the flop bet which disguises our hand and then calling his jam or jamming the turn. You can't make a normal reraise on the flop with the stack depths. Minraising creates more fold equity on the turn for us but if the turn card is a brick were now 31%~ to hit and knowing how much more likely he is to fold to a turn jam is hard to know. You can claim the paired J on the turn playing this way and V has a high chance to fold if the J hits but this is only 2 extra outs in our favor. We can also claim a K playing this way and getting QQ to fold a high % of the time so thats 3 more outs in our favor. Minraising flop and V calling also makes it more likely we get paid off when the flush hits. Its interesting to think about but most people on this site don't think of moves like this and probably default to call flop and fold turn when you miss.

I don't understand why we're shoving, knowing we have zero fold equity, as a 39.5%-60.5% underdog vs villain's range.

A set would want action and probably wouldn't overbet. IMO were way more likely to be 45/55. V might be scared money. Saying we have zero fold equity is an over exaguration and in a spot that is this close a 1-5% amount of FE can make a big difference. There is $60 in the pot.

Its an interesting spot where every option is on the table due to V making the overbet.

I would go with option 2 but make $200. Then jam turn. We need some bluffs to go with our value range vs OMCs.

I disagree. The classic OMC is the classic villain that is afraid of getting out drawn and makes horrendous betting errors as a result. In addition, the OMC will play for stacks whenever they have an overpair. There is just no way an OMC folds JJ+ here ever. I disagree about villain not having JJ, but even if he didn't we're still a 57.6%-42.4% dog looking to get it in?

On a side note, even though OMC's don't play post flop very well, I don't think very many people at all are folding an overpair on this flop.

Why do you want to inflate a pot out of position with zero fold equity, knowing we're way behind and almost certainly won't get paid off if we hit?

We don't need balance here.

I fold, reason being is that if you hit the OMC won't pay you. Shoving is 2nd best option.

We need to balance because if you are including AX suited with your set mines you need to add bluffs that aren’t missed mines.

If the OMCs you play with never fold over pairs then it’s a fold preflop. The OMCs I know make hero folds.

Since flopping a flush draw is about the same as flopping a set of I want my value bets to be called. Vs OMC I’m familiar with I play this like a flopped set.

If we think we aren’t getting paid hitting the flush cause OMC can make that fold why can’t OMC also make a fold if we represent a set.

If he is just a bad OMC that will never fold over pair then just call.

I don't mind the pre flop defend.

Flop: Folding isn't terrible, but what other flop were you looking for?

As played, call, and bink turn. OMC's are sticky with overpairs.

perfectly played by the OMC

can't wait till I'm old enough to be one

fish will be fish and always pay off OMC's

But we should be smarter than a fish

I always thought OMCs should just play short stack strategy.

They wouldn't be an OMC if they had some sensible strategy.

OMC isn't really a description of the person, it's a particular style of play. It just got that name because old guys waiting for big hands while sipping on coffee is common for people doing this. There are old guys who are not OMCs and occasionally you will run into other people who play OMC.