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Old 03-25-2014, 05:30 PM   #26
answer20
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Re: How to proceed with flopping bottom set on wet board?

Bottom set is always tricky ... especially OOP.

This hand, with this board, you want to lead out. Go with $18 but if the table is ripe you can go pot or better here since you are multiway and first to act. Your goal is to make sure you get V1 stack in play by River for sure if not Turn. You cant count on V2 to increase pot for you as of yet and I dont really want to c/r or deal with a lot of Turns that can kill action.

AP I would flat V2 and let V1 do the shoving. You are now at risk to the draws and I would just flat to conceal your hand a bit. If V1 shoves and V2 reshoves before the Turn, then you have something to think about. But I dont see us folding here very often, even against 2 people drawing to a bunch of cards that beat us more than likely. I dont want to shove on V2 and risk losing V1, she is probably drawing to 2 outs (or 1 out) and I can still win a side pot with V2 if she spikes a set.

These are fun hands ... the perfect spot would be for V1 to shove and V2 to fold to get his dead money in there.

I think your action is directly related to what you want to do with V2:
1) Cold 3 betting may scare off both players depending on the size (up to shoving)
2) Flatting may give both players the impression you are on a draw but allow V2 to see a card before committing more chips.

If you are going to the River with your stack here whether or not the club/straight hits the Turn then go ahead and shove to get the chips in while you are ahead (maybe). This may be a way to take the pot right now and limit your risk.

I can go either way here, but I think I flat here more than not and hope that V2 misses Turn and then c/r him out of the hand or get it in with only one card to come. The big issue will be if V1 flats Flop and then checks blank Turn ... V2 could shove there, that is where you could be beat, but we are calling anyway, right? GL
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Old 03-25-2014, 05:33 PM   #27
J_tacular
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Re: How to proceed with flopping bottom set on wet board?

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Originally Posted by gotwoot View Post
Ewwww.

I mentioned that donking lets you get away from set over set (V2). The % of time that V2 has us set over setted is so minimal so it's not something that we should worry about. Or should we? Him raising V1 on the flop kind of makes me want to puke. If he is indeed a winning regular in the game then he should be well aware of her tendencies, which you mentioned. If he knows she's not opening anything but JJ+ AND he raises her on the flop it's either a flopped set or a combo draw/TP+FD. I guess it could be T9s, but even with that in his range we're not doing that well. Basically a flip I think?

And now I hate our hand. If you shove, she probably stacks off too like a typical fish with JJ+ which will give him odds to draw to his combo or he obviously snaps with 99/TT.

I guess it all depends on your perceived image of V2. Would he do this with anything else?
It's possible that V2 would do this a huge combo draw like QJ or 78, which I believe is a favorite or at least flipping against an overpair.
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Old 03-25-2014, 05:38 PM   #28
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Re: How to proceed with flopping bottom set on wet board?

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Originally Posted by answer20 View Post
Bottom set is always tricky ... especially OOP.

This hand, with this board, you want to lead out. Go with $18 but if the table is ripe you can go pot or better here since you are multiway and first to act. Your goal is to make sure you get V1 stack in play by River for sure if not Turn. You cant count on V2 to increase pot for you as of yet and I dont really want to c/r or deal with a lot of Turns that can kill action.

AP I would flat V2 and let V1 do the shoving. You are now at risk to the draws and I would just flat to conceal your hand a bit. If V1 shoves and V2 reshoves before the Turn, then you have something to think about. But I dont see us folding here very often, even against 2 people drawing to a bunch of cards that beat us more than likely. I dont want to shove on V2 and risk losing V1, she is probably drawing to 2 outs (or 1 out) and I can still win a side pot with V2 if she spikes a set.

These are fun hands ... the perfect spot would be for V1 to shove and V2 to fold to get his dead money in there.

I think your action is directly related to what you want to do with V2:
1) Cold 3 betting may scare off both players depending on the size (up to shoving)
2) Flatting may give both players the impression you are on a draw but allow V2 to see a card before committing more chips.

If you are going to the River with your stack here whether or not the club/straight hits the Turn then go ahead and shove to get the chips in while you are ahead (maybe). This may be a way to take the pot right now and limit your risk.

I can go either way here, but I think I flat here more than not and hope that V2 misses Turn and then c/r him out of the hand or get it in with only one card to come. The big issue will be if V1 flats Flop and then checks blank Turn ... V2 could shove there, that is where you could be beat, but we are calling anyway, right? GL
So at this point, I know I am definitely ahead of V1, like I said 99.99% of the time she has an over pair AA/KK/QQ. Facing a cbet from V1 and then a raise from V2, I am unsure about whether a shove from me will cause her to fold (which I don't want), and she is also nitty, and might just end up folding if I shove. But then again, at the same time, most bad players in 1/2 have a hard time folding AA/KK/QQ with this kind of action.
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Old 03-25-2014, 05:50 PM   #29
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Re: How to proceed with flopping bottom set on wet board?

Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20 View Post
These are fun hands ... the perfect spot would be for V1 to shove and V2 to fold to get his dead money in there.
Great post 20.

This is the dream scenario here.
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Old 03-25-2014, 05:52 PM   #30
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Re: How to proceed with flopping bottom set on wet board?

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It's possible that V2 would do this a huge combo draw like QJ or 78, which I believe is a favorite or at least flipping against an overpair.
I already included that in his range, and even with A10, J10 we are well behind. With T9s we are flipping.

Just flat and see what happens?
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Old 03-25-2014, 07:21 PM   #31
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We are never folding a set here, we are still well ahead if he has 10X cc here too. I think we gotta shove now and hope they both come along. She may be able to get away from overpairs, but V2 isn't getting away from his combo draws or 2 pairs. If we don't go broke getting set over setted we are doing something wrong. Shove now and pray they both call.
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Old 03-25-2014, 07:31 PM   #32
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Flat V's raise and let the old lady shove.
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Old 03-25-2014, 11:01 PM   #33
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Re: How to proceed with flopping bottom set on wet board?

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Old 03-26-2014, 01:09 AM   #34
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Re: How to proceed with flopping bottom set on wet board?

Lol, love the table talk.
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