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Old 06-25-2018, 12:57 PM   #1
encapsulated
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Heart How to play Bottom Boat vs LAG. 1-2 NLHE 3K+Pot

Friendly home game runs once every 1/2 weeks. The Villain (my friend), is a very LAG player who bought in for 300 and ran it to 3.3k and became chip drunk. Slightly tilted - just lost (stone cold) nut flush all in on the turn; lost to the board pairing on the river.

Villain is very loose preflop, chasing draws, calling down everything with top pair, two pairs on any dynamic boards without hestitation.

Almost everyone have over $1500 in a 1/2 home game.

I picked up 88 in the CU.

Villian (MP) made it $30 and I call and BU(short stack) shoves for $120 total. Villain calls, I called. (~$360 in pot).

Flop 8JJ

Villain (MP) who makes it $100. I call(~$560 in pot).

Turn Q

I check here and Villain bets $350. I check-raise all in for $900 more - Villain announces that he loves his hand and said he has outs to straight flush, flush draw. He calls.

I announce I have a boat and he said I'm good, but he still has outs. I don't think he has a Jack or else he would snap call.

River 7

Villain later told me that he had 9 and 10 with straight and open ended straight flush draw.

Did I play this hand incorrectly? How should've I played it instead (I did get maximum value), but how do you play the worst boat possible? What are ways to exploit this player? What could've Villain do to avoid this?

Last edited by encapsulated; 06-25-2018 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:19 PM   #2
c0rnBr34d
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Re: How to play Bottom Boat vs LAG. 1-2 NLHE 3K+Pot

It's hard to say. You've said V chases a lot but you haven't said how strong V is when he's barreling. If he also often barrels off with air then I don't like the shove. If he only leads or calls on draws and rarely folds then it's not as bad, but we are still in position with a boat and the only card we really dont want to see is a Q. I'd lean towards flatting to keep his bluffs in but if he's just a calling station I guess it doesn't matter. Since he hits the straight OTR you get the money either way. But if he had AK or whatever other airball hand we lose the $900 in value.
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:39 PM   #3
setintostraight
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Re: How to play Bottom Boat vs LAG. 1-2 NLHE 3K+Pot

Nice hand. Sounds like a dream game if people are willing to put in 500BB in with an OESD on the turn.
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:52 PM   #4
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Re: How to play Bottom Boat vs LAG. 1-2 NLHE 3K+Pot

In this particular game, this deep, I think you have a mandatory 3-bet pre-flop. I actually think that was a HUGE miss here.
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:53 PM   #5
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Re: How to play Bottom Boat vs LAG. 1-2 NLHE 3K+Pot

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Originally Posted by setintostraight View Post
Nice hand. Sounds like a dream game if people are willing to put in 500BB in with an OESD on the turn.
He hit the straight on the turn, but has a redraw for flush/open ended straight flush draw.
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:56 PM   #6
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Re: How to play Bottom Boat vs LAG. 1-2 NLHE 3K+Pot

Villain is the type of player to fire with complete air and also catches 2 pair with garbage hands against AA. Really unpredictable and hard to read, especially when it gets to that time of the game where everyone calls for 25-50 bb with any 2 suited connectors.

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Originally Posted by c0rnBr34d View Post
It's hard to say. You've said V chases a lot but you haven't said how strong V is when he's barreling. If he also often barrels off with air then I don't like the shove. If he only leads or calls on draws and rarely folds then it's not as bad, but we are still in position with a boat and the only card we really dont want to see is a Q. I'd lean towards flatting to keep his bluffs in but if he's just a calling station I guess it doesn't matter. Since he hits the straight OTR you get the money either way. But if he had AK or whatever other airball hand we lose the $900 in value.
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:59 PM   #7
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Re: How to play Bottom Boat vs LAG. 1-2 NLHE 3K+Pot

Idk, would 3 bet really be the right move. If I get 4 bet, it would be a tough call and if Villain had garbage 2 cards, I don't think I'd get a call. If I don't hit a set, and its just dead money in there, I think the hand would be over. Button likely had Aces or Kings tight NIT.

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Originally Posted by RagingOwl View Post
In this particular game, this deep, I think you have a mandatory 3-bet pre-flop. I actually think that was a HUGE miss here.
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:03 PM   #8
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Re: How to play Bottom Boat vs LAG. 1-2 NLHE 3K+Pot

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Idk, would 3 bet really be the right move. If I don't hit a set, and its just dead money in there, I think the hand would be over. Button likely had Aces or Kings tight NIT.
Against this particular player, your 88 is significantly ahead of his range, and will likely be the best hand on the flop. The incredibly deep stack depth is what really makes this a mandatory 3-bet here.

If this is the kinda game where a person can turn $300 into $3K, then you DEFINITELY want there to be a big pot when you make a set. So even if you're just set mining....you'll still have the odds to do so even if you raise.

In addition, you have the initiative, you have the most profitable c-bet opportunities, it will most likely be checked to you on the flop, so you can decide if you want to see a free turn, etc etc. There are lots of perks that come with being the pre-flop aggressor.
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:12 PM   #9
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Re: How to play Bottom Boat vs LAG. 1-2 NLHE 3K+Pot

Got it, thanks for your feedback. If you were in the villains position, how would you have played differently? Or since he hit the straight with redraw on turn GII?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingOwl View Post
Against this particular player, your 88 is significantly ahead of his range, and will likely be the best hand on the flop. The incredibly deep stack depth is what really makes this a mandatory 3-bet here.

If this is the kinda game where a person can turn $300 into $3K, then you DEFINITELY want there to be a big pot when you make a set. So even if you're just set mining....you'll still have the odds to do so even if you raise.

In addition, you have the initiative, you have the most profitable c-bet opportunities, it will most likely be checked to you on the flop, so you can decide if you want to see a free turn, etc etc. There are lots of perks that come with being the pre-flop aggressor.
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:15 PM   #10
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Re: How to play Bottom Boat vs LAG. 1-2 NLHE 3K+Pot

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If you were in the villains position, how would you have played differently?
I'd quit poker and take up chess.

Seriously, it takes an epic meathead to lose 750BB's at 1/2 by calling it off with 8th nuts.
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:30 PM   #11
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Re: How to play Bottom Boat vs LAG. 1-2 NLHE 3K+Pot

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I'd quit poker and take up chess.

Seriously, it takes an epic meathead to lose 750BB's at 1/2 by calling it off with 8th nuts.
Lol, well, it is a friendly game home no rake and lots of action. After his bet of $350, it was $900 to call ~$2200, the pot odds were definitely not there but he only has to be correct 1/3rd of the time? I had been caught bluffing a few times throughout the night. If I had AJ, I would make the same play due to flush/straight draws?
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Old 06-25-2018, 05:30 PM   #12
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Re: How to play Bottom Boat vs LAG. 1-2 NLHE 3K+Pot

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He hit the straight on the turn, but has a redraw for flush/open ended straight flush draw.
Oh whoops, my bad. Still pretty bad to call it off there. Seems like a short stacked strategy would suit him best then.

I don't know how similar this game plays to a casino 1/2, but a reraise of this size on a later street is usually at least 2nd or 3rd nuts (which it was in this case).
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:41 PM   #13
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Re: How to play Bottom Boat vs LAG. 1-2 NLHE 3K+Pot

Villain has a trivial fold in a typical passive 1|2 game where people only shovel this much money in with the absolute nuts.

Villain has a trivial call in a 1|2 home game which apparently plays like 5|T where he has a LAGtard image and is very high in his range in a huge pot. Lol at anyone wanting villain to fold the turn.
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:46 PM   #14
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Re: How to play Bottom Boat vs LAG. 1-2 NLHE 3K+Pot

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Originally Posted by setintostraight View Post
Oh whoops, my bad. Still pretty bad to call it off there. Seems like a short stacked strategy would suit him best then.

I don't know how similar this game plays to a casino 1/2, but a reraise of this size on a later street is usually at least 2nd or 3rd nuts (which it was in this case).
Its a fun game, usually runs for 10-12 hours, everyone starts off with $1-200 buyin and ends up with around $1000-$1500 avg stack.

Just wondering on here to see if anyone can give tips/etc.
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Old 06-27-2018, 07:20 PM   #15
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Re: How to play Bottom Boat vs LAG. 1-2 NLHE 3K+Pot

Sounds like a reverse HH to me.

If V is calling T9s preflop for 120, and willing to get the rest (of 1500) in on a paired board, he will never be a good player. There is no reason to worry about how you get his money, he will just give it to you all day, every day.
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