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How many of you don't use physical tells at all? How many of you don't use physical tells at all?

06-20-2015 , 03:56 AM
I don't really look for specific tells, but I'm very aware of body language in general. Against some opponents I get basically no reads, but with others it can be pretty obvious where they're at without even needing to correlate they're behavior. Sometimes it's just ridiculous, like I c-bet checked to IP, guy quietly agonizes over a call. Turn doesn't complete any draw, I shove with air, he folds. Easy.

Sometimes I'll pick up on your classic tells, like 3-bet pot, guy calls OOP, sees the flop and has a huge reaction, glances to his chips, back at the A92 flop, back at his chips, and insta donk shoves. Now I also know this guy isn't getting this excited about the A, so it's pretty much always a set, and if I have AK I'm folding.

Some old guys have obvious tells where they perk up when they hit the flop hard, while among younger guys this doesn't necessarily mean anything.

The river "check/pound the table" wanting to see the showdown is usually reliable, though it's gotten me in trouble when the guy STILL called my shove with 2nd pair, so I mean, there are way more important things to consider.
How many of you don't use physical tells at all? Quote
06-20-2015 , 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerDharma
Preflop tells are some of the best and most reliable. I'm always watching downtable to my left for these.

There's a cat in my regular game that looks at his cards early and always caps his cards with a chip when he's going to play. If he caps it with a single one dollar chip he's limping in or mucking. But when he plans to raise or 3bet he caps it with two or three redbirds and usually picks up a fistfull of chips waiting for his turn. He's a fairly solid player so it amazes me he doesnt know he's doing this, and it's 100% reliable.
This, my friend, is a common way of signaling to your partner of what you have.

There are so many ways to signal your partner, it's one of the things I'm on the lookout for. There are players I refuse to sit at the same table with.

You can 'tell' your partner which ace you are folding. [great when he is drawing to the K high flush of that suit.]

You can tell your partner when you want him to 3-bet so that you can come back over the top.

The list goes on and on. Two players, playing partners, can make a lot of money.

Now that's 'scummy'...... exposing your cards is not.
How many of you don't use physical tells at all? Quote
06-20-2015 , 10:18 AM
1/1 , 1/2 player with not much experience:
please dont be the player who watched tons of highstakes poker plays on youtube and identified tons of body tells .... please dont .... fold pre... got some guys in a round which really watched too much youtube. Was really fun, cant describe , maybe you also saw some guys like that. Killer eye to eye contact, stating they analysed you play by tells .... watched a guy like he want to kill him, maybe thinking its WSOP final table.... zOMG .... fold pre.

I know a lot about body language and psychology. I dont believe much in one time tells.
If I recognize something I just save it as "tell theory" - does it happen again? Tell verified or tell declined. So I need basically some time to get a tell. Most valuable informations on my limit(for me) is how was the hand played(so I can get his range and use it when against me ...) and categorize the player. So his cards will be face up even without tells.
If you or anybody can make some really sick plays based on tells - well played. The only big one time teller I try to always use:
Seeing who will fold / open-call preflop: If I see the fish wants to play the hand I will openraise or just limp with a wider range. If I see the fish dont want to play the hand I will use a much tighter range. And the tell is so easy to identify: For example a guy grab his hand and just looking at you and holding his hands in a trowing position or just move the hand a lot of his in dealers direction ... you know what I mean (bad english )
How many of you don't use physical tells at all? Quote
06-20-2015 , 11:03 AM
Reading physical tells is a critical part of my game. The lower the stakes and less experienced the V, the more tells I rely upon to win pots (or keep from losing big pots).

It also works in very long tournaments when people start dropping their guard and discipline. For instance, during last year's monster stack bracelet event, I was absurdly card dead. I only won pots by closely watching every player's action, and seizing on any signs of weakness (combined with my tight image) to bluff and take down enough pots to last a little longer than otherwise (which is crucial in those tourneys). This was very tiring to constantly watch everyone's moves, but it worked in many instances.

The obvious tells mentioned in these posts are usually reliable, but I also watch for breathing, what people do with their hands, eyes, voice steadiness, etc that show strength, weakness, nervousness etc. You just have to combine them all together with betting patterns, table image, and go with a read.

But all that said.....I'm not even close to a great poker player, and reading tells doesn't always work (especially when you get into stakes above 1-2/1-3), but it still accounts for a very large part of my game.

The other side of the coin is identifying those players who can read tells, and trying very subtly to give off opposite tells in order to induce action. Do not try this unless you have a rec/fish image, but I've certainly used it when playing against regs/pros who don't know me and assume I'm just a businessman without a clue. It's only marginally effective, and usually can't be used more than once or twice, but I still keep that took handy.
How many of you don't use physical tells at all? Quote
06-20-2015 , 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
Ya, I have to admit, of all the "tells", the preflop one of capping cards / getting raising chips in hand is probably the most reliable / useful one.
LOL. Just in case somebody is watching, I often cap my cards neatly while waiting to fold or cap them without looking. Plus I try to not do it every time. #probablynotfoolinganybody
How many of you don't use physical tells at all? Quote
06-20-2015 , 12:09 PM
Lady in seat 6 ($1-$2 NLH @Monte Carlo) shudders like she was shot when J hits the turn. Shows down a set of Jacks.

Guy is seat 2 (Hard Rock Tampa $3-$6 Limit) agonizes when bet into on River, double checks cards, moans, tanks, then raises. I laugh out loud (sorry, bad etiquette) and bettor calls to see Oscar winner show him the nuts.

But what does it mean when PF raiser leads on flop, then reaches over for a sip of his drink? Is he trying to feign confidence and take down a small pot with a C-bet or is he truly relaxed cuz he hit top pair??
How many of you don't use physical tells at all? Quote
06-20-2015 , 02:19 PM
Taking a drink or bite to eat is usually confidence/strength indicating a relaxed mindset or release of previous tension. But this tell is more reliable the further into the hand you are. Somebody might be totally relaxed and comfortable c-betting air on the flop, so they didn't necessarily hit top pair. A PFR already has the momentum, he's not typically on the edge of his seat praying he hits top pair on the flop.

Also, food is a stronger tell than drink. A drink can be nervousness as well.
How many of you don't use physical tells at all? Quote
06-20-2015 , 04:32 PM
I'm telling you right now .. Watch "Lie to Me", a TV series that ran on Fox for 3 or 4 years. The first 2 (for sure) seasons have been invaluable to me at live games against non-regs.

I tend to downplay the live tell with regs as I know enough about their game and have seen plenty of reverse tells along the way with them as they know I am looking at them.

They must be part of your live game or you will miss out on quite a few spots. Calling down with 3rd pair/King high spots can add to your stack when you may have just folded based on the 'line' or run-out of the board.

They are part of the whole story an opponent is trying to sell you ... facial tells, timing tells, body tells ... the whole thing needs to fit the story.

I use them for both calls and folds and are convinced it has a +EV effect on my game. GL
How many of you don't use physical tells at all? Quote
06-20-2015 , 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20
I'm telling you right now .. Watch "Lie to Me", a TV series that ran on Fox for 3 or 4 years. The first 2 (for sure) seasons have been invaluable to me at live games against non-regs.
Really?? I've seen the show, it's not bad, but can you give some specific examples? I'm very curious
How many of you don't use physical tells at all? Quote
06-20-2015 , 09:24 PM
you'll find that alot of the time weak is strong is weak.

if they make a weak movement they are usually weak. (goes for most tryhards)

if they are a TERRIBLE player, than weak is strong.
How many of you don't use physical tells at all? Quote
06-21-2015 , 02:08 AM
I definitely use a decent amount of live tells when I play, however with the exception of pre-flop pre-loading tells I generally use maths and ranges first.

A problem encountered by a lot of players trying to use tells post-flop is that it only tells you what your opponent thinks of their hand, as opposed to what their actual hand is.

I played a hand a few weeks ago against a tight reg, and I had KK on a TT9r flop in a 3B pot with a dry side-pot as a 3rd player was already all-in. He lead into me on the flop and from the tells he was giving off, he legitimately thought he had the nuts. However just from a combinatorics perspective and his PF ranges, he only had 99 or TT to beat me. As such I shipped it, he snap called like he had the nuts, but mucked when I tabled on a blank run-out.

Played another hand against him a week ago and he gave off the exact same tells in a single raised 4-way pot with JJ on a T88 flop after calling from the SB pre-flop. He lead out, snap called my flop raise, and donk-overbet shipped a 7x turn drawing to two outs against my flopped boat.

Put simply, a lot of players who seem strong are simply over-valuing hands, and as such you need to pay a lot of attention to their tendencies to fully utilise post-flop tells. Otherwise you might end up making hero-calls/hero-folds against players who accidentally turn a medium strength value hand into a bluff, or accidentally value-bet when bluffing with 2nd-3rd pair.

As such, post-flop tells are best against the sort of player who will never turn a pair into a bluff and won't value-bet thinly or over-value hands; although they still have some utility against most players in closer spots.

Regarding pre-flop tells, even many otherwise competent players give off too many pre-flop folding/calling tells. Although I'm against pointless/hollywood tanking during pre-flop decisions, if you wait just a few seconds before acting pre-flop, the player(s) on your left will very often reveal their intentions. This allows you to have post-flop position more often, and occasionally opens itself up to very profitable over-call/3B/4B opportunities in certain line-ups.
How many of you don't use physical tells at all? Quote
06-21-2015 , 04:24 PM
Im new so havent had a lot of opportunities to make it to that level of awareness... Spend more time keeping track of pot odds and possible hands people have. But I have noticed one tell in particular: feigning being ready to call when Its my action. Also when someone considers raising and simply flat calls, almost always is weakness at 1/2.
On the other hand, I've been told twice I have a tell... A deep sigh before a bet. Only problem is that i do that subcontiously when im in a big spot and am considering bet size... Has nothing to do with my hand. Was called when they thought t was a bluff (wasn't), was folded to when it was a bluff )
How many of you don't use physical tells at all? Quote

      
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