Hi all,

Not in any whining mood but in need of advice.

On my last 5 live poker sessions (blinds 2€/2€), I lost 4 of them for a total of : - 1200€

Variance is hiting me very hard (AA crushed by KK with a K flushing on river, nut str8 crushed by flush on river with vilain paying my all in 2:1 on turn to hit his flush, set on flop beat by vilain's str8 on turn, TOP 2 on flop against set, etc etc... I have all those hands in my phone).

Question : how long can that bad streak last ? I'm sick of being slapped in the face and lose again and again and again.

Last horrible hand tonite :

I have Ad 4d on BTN

Vilain 1 raise 16€ UTG, 2 others callers, I call, SB call.

Flop : 5d Td 4c

SB shoves 75€ last euros.
Vilain 1 UTG calls
other players fold.

I have 125€ in stack. Any 4, Ace or diamond make me win.

With a pair+FD+1 OC, I have great equity. Calling makes no sense to me and I want to put pressure on Vilain 1.

So, I shove. Vilain 1 calls puting 50€ more.

On turn and river : no diamond, no Ace, no 4. My hand doesn't improve.

Vilain on SB wins with 9T
Vilain 1 UTG only shows a random 5...

Is this a f*** joke ???

What can you do when nothing go the right way, whatever you do ?

Stop playing live ? I'm getting sick of going back home with the tail between my legs.

Have some of you already experienced that sort of bad run ? How long can it last ? What did you do then ?

Even if I'm rolled for live games, losing 1200€ hurts.. (1500$ ?)

Thanks all

Just keep plugging along. I know its tough. I've had 8 losing sessions in my last 10 and lost basically all profit from my first 6 weeks ... I know its not much of a sample, but I feel like I'm playing OK and just not getting 'lucky;' i.e. when I have AA i'm winning a small pot and no one has anything else to pay me off. last night, i had KK and got all-in preflop .. other guy turned up KK as well. i mean, it happens. flush draws don't hit, sets are rare and don't get paid off or lose to a flush/straight. just keep plugging. maybe take a couple of days off to get your head straight.

It can last a long, long time. 5 live sessions, even if they're lengthy, might be 1200 hands. You could conceivably run bad for a lot longer.

In the hand you posted, you have great equity, but this correlates to the nature of the long term profit you will show by getting it all in in this scenario. You win long term there because the pot is bloated multiway and you will win it often enough to make it a profitable spot. However, understand that your immediate win odds are only 53%, meaning it's a coinflip as to whether you win any one particular hand.

Hi guys,

Thanks a lot for your quick answers.

This **** can last a lot longer ?? Wow ! Someday I'll post the other horrendous hands. The one I posted above was the less cruel since I "only" had 53% equity (but still losing lol), but added to the previous where I lost 60/40, 70/30 or 80/20, this hand made me sick and confirmed me tonite I COULD NOT WIN NO MATTER WHAT.

Keep on plugging along ? As you say, that's really tough, dude since after thoses 5 last sessions, I'm a bit depressed. Are you going to keep playing inspite your 8 losing session, dude ?

My roll was a bit more than 11 500€. Now 9300€. Siting in general with 100 or 125bb, except tonight where I sat with only 60bb deep (120€ twice, 240€ in total and lost it all...again, second hand was my KQ against 77 on a Q7J flop).

Still have a roll to play but fear to see it burn in hell with my bad run. And the last thing I want is to become scared money.

I have passion for that game, but it's very addictive, and I don't wanna be like those poor folks I see where I play, losing all their wages/salary playing poker (difference is : they're clueless fish but hey I'm losing even making right decisions so result is the same).

So my heart is divided between keeping playing, and pausing for some times, hoping lady Variance decide to pick up on someone else.

nota bene : what an awful feeling to see all that poor players win, money going from this dude to that one, without being able to do anything...

Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It is a very mean and nasty place, and I don't care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me or nobody is going to hit as hard as life.

But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can GET hit and keep moving forward; how much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done! Now, if you know what you're worth, then go out and get what you're worth. But you gotta be willing to take the hit, and not pointing fingers saying you ain't where you are because of him, or her, or anybody!

this isnt gonna be whatu want to hear.

Out of a zillion poker players there will be certain players on both sides the bell curve. Some win every pot, some lose every pot. (not quite, but u get it)

And THIS is true. I know two HSNL players that played 6 max. Both were basically equally skilled. They were best friends and sweated each other. One was on a heater for 6 months winning like crazy, the other one couldnt win a flip to save his life hardly.

In live full ring there is one pro i know who destroyed the games in LA for 10 years, then had a break even year.

There is no rhyme, no reason, to randomness.

It CAN last a long long time.

@Solfege : that Rocky's quote rox indeed !! Could be valuable here.

@Aint : hear what you say. So what ? We hard study poker and work at our game just to be given to lady variance, hoping she'll bless us ?

Anyway, I get the point and I would like to thank both of you for your replies.

I guess I have to take a break, keep on studying the game, and hope things will get better when I decide to go and play live poker again.

nota bene : I already miss live poker :-(

fold preflop. A4s is a terrible hand to call a 8bb raise with 70bb deep.

jees cry some more. 6BI's is nothing.

Keep playing well the $$ will come.

@borderline : called because 3:1 odds (and 4:1 when after me SB called but I didnt know he would obv) + position + clueless players with 150bb to 200bb deep stacks..

@fattony : 6BI's nothin' ?? Well...

He's saying it can get a lot worse than 6 BI's

Perhaps you can step down levels for some time, play a lower limit, or play for fun at home games without any pressure, etc

When reading that I'm reminded of a quote I heard when I started playing poker. Not sure where it came from but as i remember it goes something like "fortune favors the prepared mind". Basically the harder you work at it and the more you study the luckier you get.

@2outs : 2/2 is the lowest stake...
@smallfish : it would be so nice if life and poker could be that fair. They're not.

I told I was going to post the hands.

Enjoy !

I - SESSION NUMBER 1


Session began fairly well :

Hero is dealt A J

Vilain 1 calls
Vilain 2 shoves for 44€
Hero calls
Vilain 1 calls

Flop (132€) J T 8

Hero c-b 70€ and puts Vilain 1 all in
Vilain 1 calls and is all in

Turn A

River J

Then variance would didn't know what to do on that night decided to pick me up :

2°.

Hero is UTG (340€)
Vilain 1 is at the CO (22€)
Vilain 2 is UTG+1 (400€)

Hero is dealt As A

Vilain 1 shoves for 22€
Hero paies 22€
Vilain 2 3bet 60€
Hero insta calls 340€

Flop (402€) 8 6 T
Turn A
River 4

Vilain 2 shows K K and wins the pot.

3°.

I reload for 200€, pissed of.

Before the drama, one funny hand :

Hero in LP (200€) raises to 16€ with A K
Vilain nitty guy 3bet in EP 32€
All fold
Hero 4bet 64€
Vilain tanks a bit and ends folding Q Q face up

30mns later, I have 280€ when the below hand comes

Hero on CO (280€)
Nemo the Fish in EP (300€)
Random Vilain 2 (200€)

Nemo the Fish raises 16€
Hero calls with Q T
Random Vilain 2 calls

Flop (48€) 9 J K

Nemo the Fish c-b 18€,
Hero raises 60€
Vilain 2 folds
Nemo calls

Turn (168€) 6

Nemo the Fish checks
Hero goes all in for 180€
Nemo the Fish insta calls

River (508€) 2

Hero shows the straight
Nemo the Fish happyly shows A 9

Hero is thinking about smashing Nemos's head on the table, but decides to sit out and quit instead.

TOTAL : - 450€

II - SESSION NUMBER 2 (2 days later)

Hero is dealt A Q

Flop A Q 4

Hero bet flop, vilain raises, hand goes all in and vilain shows 4 4

TOTAL : - 220€

Hero sit out, and thinks about buying a rope to hang out himself.

III - SESSION NUMBER 3 (the day after)

1°.

Hero in LP (220€)
Vilain 1 in MP (50€)
Vilain 2 in SB (80€)

Vilain 1 raises PF to 16€
Hero 3bet 50€ and puts Vilain 1 all in with A K
Vilain 2 shoves 80€
Vilain 1 calls 50€
Hero calls 80€

Vilain 1 shows K J
Vilain 2 shows T T

Ok this is a flip but since I can't win a ****, I obv lost it and vilain hit set on turn.

2°.


Hero calls a 4€ straddle with 4 4 and so do 5 others players.

Flop (20€) 4 Q 5

All check till hero who makes 16€ to call.
UTG only calls.

Turn (52€) A

Hero bets 30€
Vilain shoves 90€
Hero calls

Vilain : 2 3 and wins

200€ lost with that 2 hands. I reload 200€ which will be lost with 2 hands :

-my ppT < A3 on a 33867 board

- I have KQ, flop 7Q9 which I c-bet and vilain calls, turn As, I double barrel, vilain shoves all in, I fold.

TOTAL : -420€

IV - SESSION NUMBER 4 (the only winning one)

1°.

Hero (200€) raises 14€ in MP with A K
Vilain calls in EP

Flop (30€) 7 K 8

Vilain checks
Hero c-b 24€
Vilain shoves 90€
Hero calls

Vilain shows A K
I guess it's split pot time.

2°.


Hero is dealt A Q in the SB and raises 16€
Vilain 1 in MP calls
Vilain 2 in LP shoves for 44€
Hero and Vilain 1 call

Flop (132€) 7 T Q

Hero shoves for 80€
Vilain 1 folds
Vilain 2 mucks

[B]3°.

Hero raises to 16€ with Aces
Vilain 1 shoves 38€
Vilain 2 calls 38€
Hero 3bet 200€
Vilain 2 folds
Vilain 1 mucks J 8

4°.

Hero raises to 12€ in the CO A J

Vilain 1 en EP shove 28€
Vilain 2 in MP calls
Hero calls

Flop (76€) K 8 9

Vilain 2 check
Hero bets 40€
Vilain 2 tanks a bit and ends up folding his QT
Vilain 1 shows A J and it's a split pot.

nb : vilain 2 would have made his str8 on river and was pissed off (lol)
A ce moment, mine de rien, je dois être up de 10€ pas plus.

5°.


Hero calls a straddle of 4€ from the SB with A 7
Vilain 1 in BB calls the straddle
Vilain 2 in MP also calls.

Flop (16€) A 8 7

Hero leads 10€
Vilain 1 calls and says : "drawing hearts, huh ?"
Vilain 2 folds.

Turn (36€) A

Hero checks
Vilain 1 bets 20€
Hero raises 50€

Vilain 1 : "he's drawing but still attacking... !" and calls

River (136€) T

Hero hollywoods a bit he's annoyed there's still no heart and then :

- I'm all in

And I overbet shove the pot with my 180€

Vilain tanks 3 long minuts and ends up calling with A Q

6°.


Hero is dealt Q K on the SB
Vilain 1 (300€) raises to 12€
Hero calls.

Flop (26€) T 8 5

Hero checks
Vilain c-b 14€
Hero calls

Turn (54€) J

Vilain bets 26€, I call. I'm sure he has the A in his hand.

River (106€) T

Vilain checks. I have nothing but neither has vilain. Excellent river to bluff, there are so many fulls and flush didnt hit him with his sole Ad.

So I bet 60€ which seems to be a good amount to represent a boat, and vilain folds, pissed off.

7°.


Hero raises to 14€ from the BTN with A J

Vilain 1 in BB calls
Vilain 2 on the CO calls

Flop (42€) : J 7 9

I c-b 24€, vilain 1 calls, vilain 2 raises 130€ (and still has 140€ in stack).

Vilain 2 is a serious player, he could easily avec a hidden overpair, DP, set, flush draw, rarely air.

Anyway, TPTK isn't da nutz and I end up folding showing my hand. Vilain seems surprised (dunno if it means "how weak fold" or "nice laydown !".

8°.

The just following hand I make 16€ with Aces.

A fish old guy, calling station, calls. He's very deep.

Flop (36€) K J Q

I c-b 24€, vilain calls

Turn (84€) Q

I check and vilain check

River (84€) 7

Vilain bets 30€, I call, he shows AQ and wins the pot.

9°.


A new player comes, good player. We will call him Lee.

Lee in the HJ raises to 16€
Vilain 2 calls (the old man calling station) from the CO
I 3bet 70€ with Kings
Vilain 3 shove 96€
Vilain 2 folds.
Lee calls and is all in

Board Axxxx. I win the pot.

Vilain 3 muck Jacks
Lee mucks Queens
Hero wins with Kings

10°.


I raise UTG to 12€ with A K
Vilain 1 calls from MP.

Flop (28€) 6 7 2

I c-b 18€, vilain calls.

Turn (64€) 7

I check, vilain bets, I fold, vilain shows 8 T

11°.


Vilain raises 16€
Vilain 2 in the HJ calls
Lee 3bet and shoves 48€
I call
Vilain 1 and 2 call also.

Flop (192€) K T 4

I shove.
All fold.
I win.
Lee told me he had Queens.
Vilain 1 had Jacks.

12°.


In the BB I have A Q

Fish UTG raises to 16€, I call.

Flop (32€) Q 8 T

I plan a c/r, but surprinsingly vilain checks (his c-b% was near to 100%).

Turn (32€) 5

I bet 26€, vilain calls

River (88€) T

I make a mistake : I bet and he fold. Should have checked to induce bluff.

13°.

Hero is dealt 7 7

Old man calling station raises 14€. I call.

Flop (32€) 6 3 3

Old man c-b and I call. No use to raise here, he'll call everything and I don't wanna commit too many chips with my hand.

Turn (60€) A

Old man bets little, 14€.

The Ace is in his range obv, but vilain has been caught bluffing in numerous spot. I don't give him much credit. So I decided to call.

River brick, old man still beting little (16€), I call and he shows A T

14°.

Lee raises 14€ from the BTN. I 3bet 40€ with Aces. He folds showing AJ and I show my hand too (this detail is very important for a following hand against him).

15°.

Old man calling station raises to 14€ in LP.
I call in en EP with 2 2

Flop (32€) A 4 2

Old man c-b 16€, I call.

Turn (64€) 4

Old man bets 14€, I raise 40€, he calls.

River (144€) 6

Old man checks, I bet 50€ (too little, missed value there !!!), he calls, I win.

16°.


I have queens, I chose to just call a preflop raise to mix it up. Flop AK8 with 2 vilains, they bet and call, I fold, vilain 1 had AK.

17°.

Lee raises to 16€ from the BTN
I 3 bet 40€

Lee is annoyed and calls telling me "I have a hand you know...Cant' fold this time".

Flop (84€) ;7d ;8s ;3c

Ok, I have a monster. Lee seems to have a monster. We're both deep (450€). We know this hand could go all in. This could be a slaughter.

- What do you want me to do Lee ? We play the hand or we check all long.
- Do what you want, the only thing I can tell you is that I can't lay down my hand.
- Neither can I

We're staring at each others, we're both confused. I know he's very well. And he remembers I 3bet him earlier with Aces. Tough spot for both of us on that board.

I chose to bet mid pot (40€), he snap calls.

Turn brick, Lee checks I check
River brick, Lee checks, I check too.

Lee shows Kings
I show Queens.

TOTAL : +220€

V - SESSION NUMBER 5 (yesterday)


1°

The hand numer one was the A 4 hand on the button where I lost my 53% equity all in.

2°.

Last hand, I raise from the BTN with Q K

Vilain 1 calls (the one who called my shove with just a pair of 5)
Vilain 2 (wich is the vilain from the previous session who raised on the J79 flop and made me fold TPTK).

Flop (46€) 7 J Q

Vilains check to me.
I make a 20€ c-b
Vilain 1 calls
Vilain 2 raises to 60€.

Ok, so pause for a moment. Here's how did I think about this ****.

There was this hand a couple of days ago with vilain 2. He knows he made me fold TPTK on the J79 hand. So, in his mind I might be weak and maybe can he blow me off the hand with that raise.

We could object he's raising into 2 players, which shows strenght. But Vilain 1 is a real fish (called 125€ all in with bottom pair of 5, remember ?), and his call on my c-b doesn't show strenght, he might be drawing. So, vilain 1 doesnt preoccupy Vilain 2 who knows I can lay dow TPTK.

So, I figured he could do a move here.

He could also have TP, pair+FD, DP, set. Everything is possible with this player.

So, I decided to commit myself with my hand but unluckyly Vilain 1 had the goods with set of 7 which made a boat on a J turn.

TOTAL : - 240€

Ok folks, you now have my last 5 sessions.

FINAL RESULT OF ALL SESSIONS : - 1200€

I figure there are mistakes in those hands, I'm not perfect, I'm learning the game everyday, but did I deserve to lose those 6 BI's ??

Am I a bad player who deserves this ? Maybe I am and shouldn't play anymore and just focus on learning the game.

Honestly, I'm a bit lost for now, dunno what to think anymore and how I stand in poker..

I know everybody tries to be kind and says UL, variance is longer than you think, just grind it out, it'll turn round etc.

Normally people who post these threads are losing cause they are not very good at poker. Whether that means that they are not good enough to beat it, or are of a skill level to have a small win rate, hence higher variance, fact is they normally suck.

So, stop whining and get better. You're attitude of entitlement is not one normally associated with a winning player.

Only you can tell how the other players are, but frankly I think you call too much preflop with AQ and AJ.

I didn't read most of this, but I can tell you that your mistake is thinking of poker in streaks. There are no streaks. Play well, get lucky. That's all there is to it. Use an EV simulator if you want to find out how bad variance can be. Just google it.

While I can see taking a gamble to get up to a big stack to stack clueless donkeys, A4s isn't a hand to get in with it.

Especially when you're going to cry that you got 3 way action on a flop with good equity.

I'd prefer a suited connector here than A4s because you're going to lose more when the A hits.



Also the TT/AK/KJ hand:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 35.193% 34.81% 00.38% 477153 5262.00 { AcKs }
Hand 1: 44.624% 44.49% 00.14% 609786 1900.00 { TcTd }
Hand 2: 20.183% 19.80% 00.38% 271391 5262.00 { KdJc }



In session #4, Hand #6. You will NEVER have a boat on the river. If you can't figure out why, give up poker.


In session #4, Hand #13 (77). fold turn. Old man has no 6 in his range, he has all pocket pairs that crush you, and all aces that crush your hand. He got max value from you.

In session #4, Hand #15 (22) Raise the flop. If he has an A he's not going anwhere. If he has lower pp, he's going to check-fold the turn.

Hello,

I made a mistake in the 1st hand of the 1st session, with A J

I raised PF, vilain 1 shoved 44€, I called, and so did vilain 2 (with 70€ stack left)

All the others AQ and AJ hands of the 5 sessions have been raised PF, except one AQ (hand 12 of session 4).

@Borderline : you only talk about the "good" session, nothing about the others ones whereas my main concern is about all the sessions I lost big.

So, where do you see I call "too much preflop" ?

Ok, so I suck at poker and deserved to lose those BI's.

I'm going to keep on learning the game, then. Fair enough.

Thanks for your opinion.

nota bene : as I told in the 1st post, I'm not whining, I try to understand what happened, and asked for advice from more experienced players who might have known that kind of situation where everything's going wrong.

@Borderline : thanks for your review but u mainly talk only about hands of session 4 which isn't my concern since it was a winning one. I post this session to be 100% fair and not only post losing hands.

I'm concerned and worried about what happened in the 4 others losing ones, and Im' interessed about your thoughts about'em .

nota bene : about the AK vs TT vs KJ, I never told I unfairly lost that one. I knew I was flipping, so I gamble and lost, no big deal. The big hole in my BR comes from the others hands, but I figure I related this flipping hand just to point the fact I could not win a hand no matter what the odds are.

nota bene 2 : in FR games, I'd rather play Axs and Kxs than suited connectors that lose lot of value in loose passive game imo.

nota bene 3 : thanks again for your review of session #4. I agree I missed value on hand 15 and afterwards ok to fold pp7 on turn

Yeah, you think that might be a problem? And you are whining. Unfair is when somebody cheats.

NB 2 makes some sense.

Sorry for the bad use of "unfair", english is not my mother language.

Sorry u might see me whining. I'd rather perceive myself as being bored/pissed off, but I guess that doesn't change a thing.

I will then keep on studying the game so that my poker game improves.

Thanks all for your comments

6 BIs swings are standard. But it looks like it's affecting you quite a lot, which is a leak. If it pisses you off, upsets you etc. DONT PLAY. I know of no players who play as good when they're down than when they're up. If you walk into the casino thinking how much you're stuck from the last sessions and that you must grind them back you are pretty doomed. Take a break. Don't play or think poker for a week or 2. Play a kitchen table game with friends and laugh about the suckouts. Go back to the grind fresh.

+100

So many thanks for your comment which is 1000% true.

When I'm at the table, I consider chips as a tool, and a tool only, which is a good thing. But as soon as I'm outside the poker room, it's like "geeez u lost 400€ tonite, that sux !". Or I could think of a previous bad session I've been sucked out on my way to the poker room for a new one which is also bad for the game.

So, yup, I'll take a break, rebuild the 1200€ lost (with my work or online poker), and get back to the live poker when it's done.

Thanks again.
Cheers

[B]"@Borderline : thanks for your review but u mainly talk only about hands of session 4 which isn't my concern since it was a winning one"

This is a really poor way to look at poker. If you keep thinking like this, you will never become a successful poker player.

Just because you won the hand doesn't mean you made the correct decisions during a hand.

Just because you lost the hand doesn't mean you made the wrong decisions during a hand.

You know, sometimes, regardless of the odds, I don't feel like risking that much money on a hand. Sure the odds say this or that, but so what, you have to live with yourself.

And there are all kinds of winning players. Total math and odds guys, good hand readers and seat of the pants types that can see into your skull after watching you for an hour.

Maybe you are using the wrong model to fit your skill set.