I can think of lots of better boards.


It's not an auto cbet. It's just a mostly cbet. If you've been manic for the last hour I'd reconsider the flop bet.

This is a good thing. Then your value betting and theres a possibility of him hitting one of those over cards and you have the same one with the nut kicker.

Name a better board against a nit.

Well, like Q56?

Both boards are equally associated, although there are a lot fewer combos he's likely to play that give him a straight draw.

This hand doesn't have a scare card, and I think that 89 smacks the day lights out of his range on the button. A lot of connectors, suited or not, 56 up to QJ look pretty good alongside that board. Some look really good. Likewise 1-gappers in that range. Many combos of Ax look good to excellent, not all. Any pocket pair down to 88 looks good, and 77 doesn't look terrible. So he hates life with KJ, KQ. Mildly dislikes life with AQ. What am I missing?

The only thing going for a cbet there is its heads up.

You know it's also about your hand. C betting with 98 here has a better return since you fold out a lot that is beating you. That's part of Ava's point.

It's also about the fact that we are facing a straightforward villain who will likely give us info if we check. He's not the type to bet without having something.

I doubt he folds much of his range to a c bet on that board. If you bet the flop you have to 3 barrel a lot and you will be called down a lot.

Check flop. Check turn.

He has like 1000% more Qx than hands that pair here. The guy is a nit, most of his range is broadways. He can probably have some of the SC. But he definitely can't have offsuit connectors. And we don;t really mind if he is calling hands like JT or 77. I would likely barrel a decent number of turns because, I agree, there are a number of marginal hans he could have weak 1 pairs with. But he is likely not calling two bets with those anyway.

This is a good board to barrel because he is tight and it misses a lot of his range. I think you are giving him too wide a range. If his range is that wide then, yes, its a bad board.

I think your reasoning for not c-betting is that a lot of what you fold out is worse. While that is partially true I think we do fold out hands like 22-77 and a few others that do have some equity (even if dogs). We are out of position and think we just need to play it very straightforward.

This is simply not true. Dude is a nit...he folds out a lot of his range...some that has good equity and some that has little but still some equity

C-bet the flop and consider double barreling if a J or Q hits. Bet the turn for protection since he checked the flop. Doesn't have to be a big bet, maybe less than half pot.

If you really believe that he's not folding overcards, then betting AK here is for value, right?

GRUNCH

PF - seems fine
OTF - This seems like a perfectly fine board to c-bet. I don't like trying to c/r a nit here. If he's a nit, he's only putting in money with a hand and then you're trying to talk him out of continuing with that hand?
OTT - As played you might as well fire. If he's braindead and/or looks like he's given up on the hand, fire ~$20. You'll get called by 100% of his PP here, but you can get looked up by a weak(-er) A. I'd bet the turn as played.

As far as credibly representing something, you're basically repping what you have, but if your image is of maniac, your hand is better than a lot of what you can looked up by if he gets sticky. If his master plan is to raise you with his monster when you bet after he checks that flop...ok, just fold.

Hm.

Ok so in all likelihood some of his range is pp and more of it is "20s" as helmuth calls them. In the first case he will pretty much play his hand face up. In the second I have him crushed whether he folds or not.

The idea of betting if a J falls is interesting. As it turns out we checked thru the turn and a J came out on the river. Before I could even react he grabbed a handful of chips without even counting. Threw em on the table, chips running off like cockroaches. Stares at me. Bet was like $23.

Hero?

Betting out of turn on the river is usually a tell that he's bluffing. So I'd call.

Fold river IMO. You played the hand so passively, I really don't see much sense in trying to bluff catch a nit.

I'd call that stupidity.

I do that sometimes when I actually do have a hand, but for most that's a sign of BS.

Am I the only one who noticed that Villain over limped BTN over 3 other limps? And then he limp/called a big raise from the blinds HU against the PFR?

This guy has small pairs and SCS a lot here. Therefore, he likely smashed that 984r flop, and we should check flop and check turn.

So when someone over limps the button and calls your raise from the blinds, your plan with AK is to c/f, c/f boards that are 9 and lower?

Yeah, but which sc's are in play? I think we can rule out anything with a 9, which he surely would have bet by now.

After your flop check, your hand really looks like AK. I really doubt Villain will fold 87s or 77-55.

I think you can bet half to a third given described images. You said your image is maniac. Opponent should consider that which opens up your range considerably. You might get more folds than you think.

If there's one last nugget to squeeze out of this discussion, it's the difference between a tell and a read.

The tell suggests a bluff. But the whole point of the exercise is how to range, and play against a nit. The point is, nits don't bluff. Makes sense, if you consider how much of the villain's range includes at least one jack.

I played this hand like a complete monkey, but I must say I got more than $23 worth of excellent discussion here about ranging a nit, and cbetting from out of position. I'm standing up clapping my hands right now. Thank you guys, so much. Excellent discussion.

I think one of the main ideas to be learned from this thread is that c-betting is still important. Yes, when you check the flop, your hand is going to look like AK. The solution is to not check the flop. I'm pretty content to fire a bullet on this flop and again on most turns. If you get called twice, c/f the river if/when you miss. If a player established as a nit wants to call two streets with 2nd pair or worse, I've got to see him do it and I will then adjust accordingly.