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Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

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Old 10-11-2018, 05:40 PM   #1
KGAA
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How good to try live 1/2?

What limit online should I be able to comfortably beat before I try live 1/2?

Can comfortably crush NL10, building a roll for NL25 atm.
Have played live a couple of times with positive results, but small sample. Doesn't seem as crazy fishy as people always say it is (I didn't see all that much limping etc, although people seem to call 3/4b too wide, regs overfold.)
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Old 10-11-2018, 06:43 PM   #2
bodybuilder32
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Re: How good to try live 1/2?

It's fishy. Everyone plays face up and nobody ever bluffs except for obvious manaics. Most V cant fold top pair unless the run out is really bad. People raise pre with top 5% and that's it. 3-bet is KK+
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:49 PM   #3
de4df1sh
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How good to try live 1/2?

Probably 40nl

It’s really a totally different game than online


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Old 10-11-2018, 09:24 PM   #4
8o8
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Re: How good to try live 1/2?

doesn't really matter, you'll have to re-learn how to play to a certain extent anyway. go check it out and see if you even enjoy/can handle playing live first. it's slow AF, messy, social, and mechanically different than online.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:03 PM   #5
6bet me
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Re: How good to try live 1/2?

At the casino I play at, 2/5 live is softer than 5nl online.

If you're winning money at the micro stakes online, then you'll crush LLSNL.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:15 PM   #6
Garick
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Re: How good to try live 1/2?

There are a couple of threads linked in the "Best of LLSNL" stickies on adjusting to live play.

Cliffs: You are almost certainly technically good enough now, but it will be an adjustment. Move to exploiting mistakes more than making yourself less exploitable. Get used to multi-way pots, and overfolding because they never bet for thin value. All bets (especially river bets) tend to be polarized and weighted heavily towards value for most Vs.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:54 PM   #7
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Re: How good to try live 1/2?

IMO, it's more about your bankroll than skill, since you win online. I have recently watched a guy recently dump $1.3k USD in a 1/2NL game in under 3 hours. PLO players will stop by for fun while waiting for a seat and they're always good for action. Last night it was $30 preflop [in a 1/2NL game] almost every hand. So you can't be playing with scared money.

6bet me says me you'll crush LLSNL. I can't debate that, because I don't play online. However, from what I understand, you have to play TIGHT online & you will quickly get identified as a NIT in a live game & get very little action, except from the clueless players. I don't see how you can win playing live the way you do online, if it's like I think it is.

I don't know where bodybuilder32 plays, but they don't all play face up where I play. I know players making $25+ per hour. They are always at the best table, or on the list for it. They have a novella on all the regulars. They leave if the games are bad - nice living close to the casino. They have the patience to grind out a 7 hour session, getting 25-28 hands per hour. Their bankroll is so large that the chips aren't money until they cash some in for spending money.

" Move to exploiting mistakes more than making yourself less exploitable." - Garick
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Old 10-12-2018, 01:00 AM   #8
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Re: How good to try live 1/2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KGAA View Post
What limit online should I be able to comfortably beat before I try live 1/2?

Can comfortably crush NL10, building a roll for NL25 atm.
Have played live a couple of times with positive results, but small sample. Doesn't seem as crazy fishy as people always say it is (I didn't see all that much limping etc, although people seem to call 3/4b too wide, regs overfold.)

Games do vary from place to place even table to table. You can't make blanket statements about llsnl the same way you can about something like 50 zoom on stars even though many seem to think you can.

The over-all skill level is rarely close to high just saying your observations about your game can be correct. Plenty of games are closer to a rake trap waste of time than a 20x open goes eight ways to the flop then your 200 bb overshove gets called by tpwk who put you on ak many portray every llsnl game ever ran to be.I

Ive played like 20 hrs this year waiting on other games and have seen plenty of fold, fold, fold, fold, $7, fold, fold, fold, defend...check, cbet, fold that ppl on here pretend doesn't exist. 1/2 worldwide player pool can be very different from table to table.
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Old 10-12-2018, 03:33 AM   #9
bodybuilder32
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Re: How good to try live 1/2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZuneIt View Post
IMO, it's more about your bankroll than skill, since you win online. I have recently watched a guy recently dump $1.3k USD in a 1/2NL game in under 3 hours. PLO players will stop by for fun while waiting for a seat and they're always good for action. Last night it was $30 preflop [in a 1/2NL game] almost every hand. So you can't be playing with scared money.

6bet me says me you'll crush LLSNL. I can't debate that, because I don't play online. However, from what I understand, you have to play TIGHT online & you will quickly get identified as a NIT in a live game & get very little action, except from the clueless players. I don't see how you can win playing live the way you do online, if it's like I think it is.

I don't know where bodybuilder32 plays, but they don't all play face up where I play. I know players making $25+ per hour. They are always at the best table, or on the list for it. They have a novella on all the regulars. They leave if the games are bad - nice living close to the casino. They have the patience to grind out a 7 hour session, getting 25-28 hands per hour. Their bankroll is so large that the chips aren't money until they cash some in for spending money.

" Move to exploiting mistakes more than making yourself less exploitable." - Garick
The game you are describing is more like a 2-5. Its probably at a venue where 1-2 is the biggest game running and it attracts the 2-5 and even 5-10 whales. The generic 1-2 you will mostly find is abc face up, passive poker with some aggro donks sprinkled in that are very unbalanced
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:12 AM   #10
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Re: How good to try live 1/2?

You beat 10NL, you can beat live 1/2. You have to adjust though, first thing is can you fold for 2 hours and not tilt? Lots of people can't.
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:26 AM   #11
KGAA
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Re: How good to try live 1/2?

Thanks for the advice guys.
I've played a couple of sessions now and am up roughly 2BI at 1/2 (one slightly losing session where I just folded all night, and one where I ran really good).

As was highlighted above, I think my main objection to continuing with it might be bankroll related. I'm not wealthy (student) and appreciate that I ran good in one of those sessions, more than it being hugely down to skill. I don't think I could take for example a 6-8BI downswing at 1/2.

What constitutes a good BRM strat for live poker? I've heard people saying you don't need to be as conservative as online (I feel comfortable at NL10 w/ 20BI bankroll)
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:39 AM   #12
Garick
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Re: How good to try live 1/2?

Please take the BR questions to the official BR Winrates and Finance thread.
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:46 AM   #13
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Re: How good to try live 1/2?

I'm beating live 1/2 for 13-14bb per/hr for a pretty good sample size. 1/2 is really about properly identifying your competition and playing vs. them accordingly. Nobody is balanced at 1/2, so it's vital that you're exploiting people.

Identify your calling stations, particularly those who identify you as a person who plays overly aggressive. Pound these folks with your value hands but watch your bet sizing so you don't blow them off mediocre hands.

Identify the passive players who also overvalue their hands. Players who won't fold an overpair and play too many AX hands (most people play too many AX hands though) when they shouldn't be. I'll sometimes call down my BTN or CO a bit lighter against these players with speculative hands because it's easy to stack them when you flop well. Make sure you don't have players behind you left to act who aren't squeeze-happy though.

Don't bluff A-high boards. Period. Just don't do it. People will limp/call or raise/call every AX hand. Very few of these bad players will fold A5o-A9o preflop regardless of position. It's just not in their nature.

Size up your squeezes and, in general, only squeeze for value unless the table is massively overfolding. You may find profitable spots to squeeze light but players at 1/2 like to call. They don't like to fold. If there's 2 limpers ahead and you want to squeeze AJs, don't squeeze to $14. Squeeze to $20. If there's a $5 BTN straddle and 2 players call, squeeze to $40 or $45. Do the same thing with QQ+. They like to call.

BET FOR THIN VALUE. This is probably the most important part of your winrate. You have to bet rivers when you think you're ahead. This isn't 2/5+, where good opponents will check nutted hands to you when they're OOP hoping you're going to bet without SDV. They're checking because they're weak. Tons of players in 1/2 will donk bet rivered flushes, FHs, etc., because they're terrified that you're going to check back the river. If a bad rec player limp/calls after you raised JJ pre, and you bet a KK5 flop, he calls, he checks a 7 turn, you check behind, and he checks a 3 river (even if a flush came in), then you need to bet, not check. These players would never check a K or a flush here. If he actually check-raised you, then you can safely fold.

Players don't bluff you much in 1/2. If you get check-raise shoved on the turn on a QT75dddx board and you're holding QTs, they're almost never doing it with just the Ad. This is usually a clear fold spot in 1/2 unless you have a very clear read otherwise. River bluff raises in 1/2? I might see it once every 30-40 hours. Never happens.

I could go over more but I think that's a good starting point.
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:53 PM   #14
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Re: How good to try live 1/2?

Yeah keep bluffing to a minimum. No "Big Bluffs". If you bluff, make it a reasonable, controlled Bluff while in position on a scary board. Chop away at pots. Don't make big bluffs repping a big hand on the river because you will get called a lot more than you should.

1/2 no limit is a lot like boxing. Jab. Jab. Jab. Slowly build up your pot. When there's heavy resistance, keep your defenses up (fold) Wait for your opponents to make a big mistake, which they will often and finish with a knockout blow.
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